Is there a problem with Avon Storm II rear tires?

chiller

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I've used 1 front and 2 rears of the Storm 1's with no problems ...

and reading this story about Raven's delaminated tire:

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1141474&posted=1#post1141474

I have to wonder if there is something wrong with the Storm's... this occurred on my Storm 2 Ultra this July in the middle of no where in southern Utah ...

I had a blow out with a passenger on the back of my bike ... the cords just busted out of the tire ... wasn't a full delamination but a section of tread was blown outwards ...

very similar to what Raven felt, one moment going down the road, the next moment ? very squishy feeling, no lockup but i knew something was up so I pulled over and voila cords busted out ... this wasn't on a twisty section of road just straight roads at this point either, not speeding 45-50mph ... and air pressure was checked every morning ... if it fell more then 2 lbs I'd go and get air for it...

my pic:

 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

I have 3,500 miles and almost 2 years on my Storm Ultra 2 front and rear keep 40-42 lbs air in them and do a variety of riding twisties and straight slab. I weigh in at 350 (ugh) which is like riding two up. Haven't had any trouble with them and they have been great handling and performance. Realize others may have different results.
 
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chiller

Chowdah Ridah
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

I have 3,500 miles and almost 2 years on my Storm Ultra 2 front and rear keep 40-42 lbs air in them and do a variety of riding twisties and straight slab. I weigh in at 350 (ugh) which is like riding two up. Haven't had any trouble with them and they have been great handling and performance. Realize others may have different results.
I had about 3500miles on mine when this happened ... U I also do a variety of riding and I do not take it easy in the corners, they handle great in the corners ... this occurred on a straight stretch of road...
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

There looks to be material embedded in the rubber near the blow out. The rubber has also been stressed/abraded around the blowout, add in the "specs" buried in the rubber, I suspect the tire failed due to an impact with debris or some other road hazard.

Easy enough to do - I've hit a few major potholes and debris myself, but I've also always stopped to check for damage because I've expected it.
 

indypup

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

I had a StormII rear tear on me after riding in the hot Utah July weather too. I had about 5K on the tire. I don't think any cords broke but I didn't look at it that closely either. I tried to plug the hole and it would just tear more. It was a straight line tear. I have some pics somewhere I'll post on here when I find them.
 

st11ray

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Does Avon recommend Storms for use on the 1300?
 

Mellow

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Does Avon recommend Storms for use on the 1300?
No, they don't. If something happens and a non-recommended tire, even though it's the right size, is on the bike at the time that's all the 'out' the manufacturer needs. I'm sure they would site that even if there was a defect in the tire... not sure.

Many have run them with no issues but some are starting to happen and Raven's is the worst we've seen.

Oddly enough the Roadsmarts are recommended for the ST1300 and they've seen the most failures.
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

From my nonscientific observations of rear tire failures, it seems to me the common thread may simply be dual~multi compound rear tires, with some brands more prone to failure than others.
 

FJRHank

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

From a legal standpoint (and I don't know that much about this angle but...), it sounds like AVON is kind of speaking out of "both sides of their mouths",

In the sense that on the one hand they say "it's not recommended for the ST13", but a rep might say "we're just waiting on Honda to certify them, and they should be okay".

So one lawyer will argue one side and the other one the other side. If there was some kind of documentation of an Avon rep saying "should be okay" or to those words, the case would probably be much stronger.

Also included would be what the website states about the tires ratings etc. If it's rated the same (or higher) as the one that is certified by Honda... all the more reason to believe it should obviously be okay for an st1300?
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Been running the Storm 1's until the II became available and have over 10,000 miles on the current II's and they look fine. 90% of my riding is 2 up and 50% is 2 up loaded to almost max. I run 42 lbs both and check it every week. Until we know more about what happened to Dace I'm not in a hurry to remove these.
Sonny
 

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

From a legal standpoint (and I don't know that much about this angle but...), it sounds like AVON is kind of speaking out of "both sides of their mouths",

In the sense that on the one hand they say "it's not recommended for the ST13", but a rep might say "we're just waiting on Honda to certify them, and they should be okay".

So one lawyer will argue one side and the other one the other side. If there was some kind of documentation of an Avon rep saying "should be okay" or to those words, the case would probably be much stronger.

Also included would be what the website states about the tires ratings etc. If it's rated the same (or higher) as the one that is certified by Honda... all the more reason to believe it should obviously be okay for an st1300?
Yeah, true.... I guess 'recommended' is the key word in some of that.

If a tire has the right weight and speed rating and the size if correct for fitment... THAT I would think is all the 'documentation' you'd need...
 

Raven

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Wow - looking at the above picture and reading indypup's description, that's exactly what happened to my first Storm Ultra II back at the end of July. I assumed that I must have hit something and cut it. On that occasion, I was leaned over in a curve and felt the rear go out. No warning - one minute riding the next immediate loss of air. Managed to push the bike upright and get over to the side of the road without crashing. There was about an inch to inch and a half long cut in the edge. That one had enough tread on it to be replaced under the road hazard warranty. The warranty replacement is the rear Ultra II I just replaced, in Florida. It had about 13K miles on it but had a chunk out of the edge as well.

Obviously, the most recent one completely delaminated with only 2000 miles on it.

I put a lot of miles on the original Storms with absolutely zero issues but these new multi-compound Ultras, I'm definitely not happy with. They don't wear as evenly and this is my third with "issues"....
 

Raven

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

btw, it might be worth cruising the FJR, BMW, and Connie forums to see if others have had issues with the Ultras....

just a thought
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Yeah, true.... I guess 'recommended' is the key word in some of that.

If a tire has the right weight and speed rating and the size if correct for fitment... THAT I would think is all the 'documentation' you'd need...
Unfortunately the devil is what we don't know here. Honda may have tested the Storm and determined it wasn't suitable. Unless there was an agreement, they are not obligated to helping Avon sort out any issues or publicize their findings. Likewise, it's not in Avon's interest to advertise their tire failed Honda qualification. One thing I have learned over the years is corporations find it more cost beneficial to pretend they have no issues, rather than opening themselves up for instant liability by admitting issues.

I guess I'll be sticking with the old Bridgestone BT020 from now on. Have never heard of any sort of issues with that model.
 

FJRHank

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Just found this listed on one of the FJR forums:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm?rcl_id=10T014000&searchtype=quicksearch&summary=true&refurl=rss

It's a link to a recall by Avon for one of their mc tires (not the ultra or the same size but...), yes it's for delamination.

Also, there's a ton of threads about Avon tires and QC issues. It seems to me anyway to be a lot more threads then other tires, but I haven't done any kind of formal counts or anything.

A quick check on Avons website indicates they have no tires available for the honda st1300...

One last thing, not sure how many people have been told this, but I've heard, for the 1st 100 miles or so of a new tire, you should never do any heavy braking (practicing I mean, if you have to you have to, of course), because it could cause the tire to delaminate. How relevant that is I've no idea...
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Around here there are going to be a lot of threads on the Avon and tire problems regarding the head shake that is very common with that tire and the 1100.

While I love the Storms on the 1100 I won't put them on the 1300. Right now I have a 023 on the front and a 020 on the rear. The 023 didn't last me very long on the rear (sub 6K miles) So I want to see how the 020 wears. Then the next set might be back to PR2. So far the 020's don't seem bad for wear but they are a PITA to mount. It is too early for a real gauge though.
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Matt....did you go back to the Storms or to a different tire altogether?
 
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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Wanna expand on a note Joe wrote over at the "Raven Down" thread. A puncture near the side wall can cause delamination between the cords. I had it happen a few years ago on a new tar, less than a thousand miles. Nail entered near the left side, went between the layers into the shoulder. Didn't notice. Rode it 'til flat, finally noticed it when crossing rail-road tracks on the west side of Altus, OK. (That's the one where Chuck Henderson carried a tar up to me from Wichita Falls, TX.)

Anyhoo, can't remember if it was a Dunlop or Bridgestone, but it was a bia. The stiff sidewalls masked the low pressure so the heat had time to do its dirty work. Found the nal (duh!) and tried to plug it. Air leaked out thru multiple holes all 'round the left sidewall.

We've all seen too many tar carcasses along the road, many are from loaded trailers running low pressure. I had, a couple years ago, a trailer behind a diesel dualie running 90 on I-15 toss a complete tread donut right beside me. Complete delamination all way 'round between carcass and tread. The carcass exploded too but not much action because it was so low on pressure. (I've also had a big rig tar explode in front of me. THAT was an explosion! :22yikes:)

All that being said, a similar problem MAY have started the failure on Dace's tar but to have that delamination occur (agree it looks like a retread failure) is absolutely not acceptable on a motorcycle tar, regardless of "proper" fittage, etc.

All this reminds me of the Avon failures on the old ST-23 back in the 90s. Everyone got off them then and stayed off 'til the Urp market started touting the then-new Azoro. I've got an Azoro on the rear of STick now and it seems to be fine.

I'm also running STorm IIs on the front of both STick and lipSTick, all seems well for now.

Given Dace's three problems in a row and other failures cited here, I'm ready to pull the plug on the Avons once again. Waiting impatiently to see what they have to say about this. Law suit time?
 

Throttlejockey

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

Maybe change this title to "Is there a problem with Avon Storm 2 rears?"
 

Scooter

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Re: Is there a problem with Avon Storm rear's ?

In the discussions of the Avon Storm and Storm II Ultra tires, I think we all should be designating which Storm model we are referring too.
:plus1:

I would go one step further and get the thread retitled so it refers specifically to the Storm II so it minimizes confusion. AFAIK, I don't recall seeing any threads in the past concerning failures with the original Storm rear tires. I am aware of many of the 1100 related headshake issues but I don't think thats the intent of this thread.
 
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