Lights stay on when ignition switch in Off, bike won't start

Joined
Oct 4, 2007
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81
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Tampa, FL
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ST1300
I just experienced the same symptoms on my 2003 ST1300A as Al Gulley had in this post:www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?97632-Power-stays-on-when-the-key-is-removed.

I was at a light and turned off the ignition (it was a long light). Upon turning the switch back on, only the neutral light and oil light came on, the FI and ABS lights did not. The starter worked fine but the bike never started. All small lights (turn, side) were on dimly, the left headlight was also on dimly, the right headlight was off. Cycling the ignition switch several times didn't help. Turned the ignition switch off but the oil pressure light, the headlamp, and the side lights stayed on. I pushed the bike to the side of the road and disconnected the negative side of the battery. Upon reconnection the same symptoms occurred. I ended up pushing it back home (~1.5 miles, STs are heavy!).
More information: checked the FI computer memory - no indication of anything wrong.

Nothing is connected to my quartet harness and my ignition key is stock. My bike has just over 60k on it. Never heard anything from the seat area when I disconnected the battery, but I was on the side of a busy road. When I got it home I reconnected the battery; it started fine! Not sure what the difference was between now and then, but the bike had cooled down.

Anybody heard of anything like this? My bike is my primary transportation, will it be OK to go to work tomorrow?
PS Answer is yes: bike worked fine today with three start cycles.

Any idea where to start troubleshooting? My thoughts:
1. ignition switch
2. sticking relay somewhere
3. control module malfunctioning

Much Later:
If you don't want to read the whole thing, skip to post #65 to see the final solution to this problem. It was a long and winding, multi-year road to get there...
 
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tdeboeser

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I'm thinking the key may not have gotten all the way to the right position. I've noticed the key gets more fussy in the ignition/bags/etc over time. If you got to work and back the next day, I would trust you'll be ok.

:tc1:

Tom de
 
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Humble Texas, (Houston)
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'10 ST1300
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Sounds very much like what my 05 with 80k on it did to me last year. The dealer said they found a wire harness with some damage. they wrapped it with tape I guess. I could not get a straight answer out of them as to where this repair was done though... i have not found the repair as of yet either. The bike has not had the trouble since I got it home after that trip to the dealer either. now at 95k miles.
 
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David P
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Wire harness with some damage? Sounds fishy, especially if you haven't found the repair. I'm thinking either the ignition switch is starting to go, or a bad ground somewhere; both faults aggravated by high heat. My last bike was a PC800 and I had to replace the ignition switch after 5+ years, although the sypmtoms were entirely different.
 
Joined
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North Plainfield, NJ
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'06 ST1300A
Where to Start?

This is a tough problem. After reviewing the wiring schematic, I'd be inclined to carefully check both the wire harness that connects the ignition switch to the main wiring harness, and the ignition switch.

Here's a brief description of the ignition switch when the ignition switch is in the ON position, these five circuits are enabled (receive +12vdc) by the Main Fuse A (which is directly connected to the battery).
  1. Fuse A (ABS Module Main)
  2. Fuse B (Position Lamps, Parking Lamps, Headlamp Aiming Motor, Headlamp Dip Switch, Vehicle Speed Sensor, Gauge Cluster)
  3. Fuse E (RH Headlamp (via Starter Switch Interrupt))
  4. Fuse D (Run/Stop Switch, Bank Angle Sensor, Voltage Regulator/Rectifier)
  5. Fuse F (Turn Signal Flasher, Optional Connector, Dash Display)

These are some of your observations when the bike failed to restart.
the FI and ABS lights did not (illuminate)
All small lights (turn, side) were on dimly
the left headlight was also on dimly
The schematic shows us that these devices are all enabled from different circuits specifically:
  • The ABS module is powered from Fuse A.
  • The running lights are powered from Fuse B.
  • The left headlight is powered from Fuse E.

The schematic also shows us that these three fuses (A,B,&E) are all enabled by the same wire (Red/Black) from the ignition switch. Hmm, three circuits that are misbehaving, and all powered by the same wire, too much for a coincidence I think.

Additionally, if the Blue/Orange wire (also from the ignition switch) was not enabled, I imagine that might cause the Bank Angle Sensor to fail. Which in turn would prevent the Bank Angle Sensor Relay becoming enabled, and that would prevent a number of engine components to function properly.
 
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David P
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The Plot Thickens

Excellent troubleshooting, Anna's Dad. I'll buy that the red/black wire circuit is faulty, and I'll assume that the bank angle sensor could shut down the engine, but why would the problem continue when the ignition switch was turned off? Could there be a failure of the switch internals? I think I'll order a new ignition switch, since all signs point to that being the culprit. I'll examine the wiring harness as well.

To add to the fire, going home on Friday I had the exact same problem. I'd ridden ~20 miles in mostly stop and go traffic, so the bike was hot and the fans had cycled several times. I was idling at a red light (no stopping the engine any more) in neutral when the engine quit and the same indications appeared (lights dim, no FI or ABS light on. Attempted to start the engine unsuccessfully. Turned key to off and then back on, same results. Pushed the bike to the side of the road (STs are still heavy). Before I could get off the bike to troubleshoot, all indications returned to normal. I restarted the engine and went home, staying in the right hand lane.

PS. Thanks for the wiring schematic link.
 
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Joined
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'06 ST1300A
A Place to Start

Here's the post I had in mind when I suggested examining the wire harness.

I haven't yet disassembled the ST1300 ignition switch, though I've rebuilt other switches. Sometimes the problem is obvious, as when a contact has pitted or eroded away, or a contact has become bent, or broken free. Other times a good cleaning resolves the problem, I guess it's possible that conductive debris mixed in with the switch lubricant can cause odd, and intermittent electrical paths inside the switch.

I think if this were my problem, I would (with the engine running) manipulate the wiring harness that goes to the ignition switch, until I was quite sure the harness was not shorting out. Additionally, if I thought the ignition switch was contributing to the problem, I'd flood the switch, while rotating the switch, with something like WD-40, or contact cleaner (only if I was confident that the contact cleaner wouldn't harm any of the surrounding area) in an effort to flush out any debris.
 
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Re: A Place to Start

Hi Dave P
From Edinburgh, just joined the Forum and seen your problem. This happened to me exactly as it did to you only the day it happened to me it was hissing down with rain resulting in having to get a breakdown wagon to take me home. Fortunately we have a electronic whizkid in the Pan-Clan and after an hour of dismantling the fairings the fault was discovered in a multi earth connector located behind the headlight fairing.This connector block which is free standing has about 16 earth wires going into it and under the top cover it has a copper strip connecting all the earth wires, once we had carefully removed the copper strip with a screwdriver in my case some green corrosion had shorted out 2 of the wires, after a quick clean with some sand paper and a coating of Vaseline everything worked normally again. So if it happens again you will know how to sort it
 
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David P
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Thanks for the comments. This afternoon, with the engine running and after a rather hot commute, I mechanically agitated the harness under the ignition switch as far as I could reach. Nothing. I guess I'll be opening up the bike to check/clean the switch and the multi-earth connector this weekend. It's worth one attempt before I buy the part.

Side note: with the fan going, the entire underside of the dash is flooded with hot air. Not hard to imagine an intermittent electrical contact based on the heat load in the area. A heavy rain no doubt wets that area as well.
 
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Re: A Place to Start

Here's the post I had in mind when I suggested examining the wire harness.
I looked at this thread last week and have had no time to dig into it. I want to do it methodically, so I'm not diving into it until this weekend. Mine is sitting in the garage doing this everytime I turn the ignition switch on.:banghead:
 
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Re: A Place to Start

Fortunately we have a electronic whizkid in the Pan-Clan and after an hour of dismantling the fairings the fault was discovered in a multi earth connector located behind the headlight fairing.This connector block which is free standing has about 16 earth wires going into it and under the top cover it has a copper strip connecting all the earth wires, once we had carefully removed the copper strip with a screwdriver in my case some green corrosion had shorted out 2 of the wires, after a quick clean with some sand paper and a coating of Vaseline everything worked normally again.
I hope this is the fix. I can afford this fix. Thanks:capwin:
 
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Re: Where to Start?

This is a tough problem. After reviewing the wiring schematic, I'd be inclined to carefully check both the wire harness that connects the ignition switch to the main wiring harness, and the ignition switch.
Great write up.
My bike was in an accident by one of the previous owners. Deer hair was the smoking gun and the dashboard steel frame is bent also. Looks like the previous guy hit a deer on the front left side and I may have some crushed wires. This problem only happened since I added farkles to my bike. I''m thinking I may have disturbed some wires. Audio-vox cruise, honda heated grips. honda aux cigarete plug and a trailer plug relay were installed in the last few months. So I thought it was a wiring mistake by me.
Also may be ground issue as Iain mentioned.
 
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David P
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Oct 4, 2007
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How can I have the same symptoms though? I've never hit a deer, and the only wiring change I made was to tie in a wire to a brown power line on the right side of the fairing. My cruise control has been there since the previous owner (~2006). I haven't been under the dash for modifications since maybe 2009. I'm thinking ignition switch but I'll be curious as to what you find.

Does anyone know if the ignition switch base can be removed and disassembled without permanent damage? Or, once off, do I have to replace it with a new part?
 
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David P
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Tampa, FL
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Re: A Place to Start

Hi Dave P
From Edinburgh, just joined the Forum and seen your problem. This happened to me exactly as it did to you only the day it happened to me it was hissing down with rain resulting in having to get a breakdown wagon to take me home. Fortunately we have a electronic whizkid in the Pan-Clan and after an hour of dismantling the fairings the fault was discovered in a multi earth connector located behind the headlight fairing.This connector block which is free standing has about 16 earth wires going into it and under the top cover it has a copper strip connecting all the earth wires, once we had carefully removed the copper strip with a screwdriver in my case some green corrosion had shorted out 2 of the wires, after a quick clean with some sand paper and a coating of Vaseline everything worked normally again. So if it happens again you will know how to sort it
I found the connector, it's a yellow block on the right hand side of the fairing. It's clean internally but it occurs to me that a grounding block is supposed to short out the wiring. Didn't see any corrosion on mine.
 
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David P
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Tampa, FL
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ST1300
Re: A Place to Start

I did a cursory inspection of the wire loom, but will do a detailed check this weekend. Right now I'm having issues removing the ignition switch - apparently Honda used a "one-way" bolt to hold the switch on the bike. I'll probably have to drill out the bolts. Also am redoing the coolant hose clamps; another bike issue. I won't be riding for several weeks.
 
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Humble Texas, (Houston)
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'10 ST1300
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See a my notes above... talk about jinx. Mine did it to me for the second time. 1st time at 85k and again at 95k. Resulted in another trip to the dealer. This time around they replaced the entire main harness that runs nose to tail and left to right. Nearly everything plugs into this harness at some point. Thank God for the extended warranty. The dealer pointed to the left side harness plugs... right there at the frame in front of the left side coil. They indicated that there was corrosion/deterioration inside the plug.
 
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Re: A Place to Start

Well, I removed my left control off the handle bar and the 17 wires down to the red and black plug. I cut open the sheath and looked for any damage to the wires. No damage was found. My bike is working normally now since I hooked everything back up ,but for how long. No wires looked damaged. I think I just had them stretched a bit due to installing a heli riser recently.
Wish Honda could of pointed more specific to the plug Txrebel.
This guy below and Txrebel helped me find the problem. Thanks guys.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/show...ight=wire+rub*
 
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David P
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Tampa, FL
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ST1300
The rest of the story, so far

Finally got around to replacing the ignition switch contact base (the electrical portion); see the writeup here: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?98574-Ignition-Switch-Removal&highlight=. Hopefully this solves my problem. With summer coming on I'll have plenty of hot rides; if the issue is still there I'll know it. Sometime later this month I'll do a destructive exploration of the original switch base and see if I can find anything wrong.

Txrebel, where exactly are the left side harness plugs that were (apparently) faulty? Is it the big connector that hangs off the inside of the left side cowl? I'd much rather clean and grease a few connectors as extra insurance against another failure.

Al, I checked for wire rub but everything looked OK. Given the troubleshooting by Anna'sDad, I had to go with the ignition switch. I'll be watching to see if you have any more problems.

Thanks to everyone in this forum for their ongoing assistance.
 
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