While I can't say for sure which plug it was exactly, they pointed to the left side group of plugs to include the one that hangs off the left cowl?
Lights stay on when ignition switch in Off, bike won't start
- Thread starter David P
- Start date
Back to the starting point
I guess the ignition switch wasn't the problem since I had a repeat yesterday. Bike had been parked in the hot sun all afternoon; air temperature was 90F and the OAT meter read 102F. Turned on the ignition and couldn't start the bike. Indications were exactly the same as before: dim running lights, left headlight highbeam on dimly, right headlight off, no ABS or FI lights on, bike cranks but doesn't start. Upon disconnecting the battery, I heard a clicking sound from the left side of the bike near the seat, probably a relay deenergizing. Had to push the bike into some shade and let it cool off for 45 minutes before it would start.
So I'm pretty sure that the ignition switch isn't the issue. I'll try the plugs on the left side of the bike, maybe hit them with a heat gun this weekend and see if I can duplicate the problem. Anyone have any ideas (besides replacing the entire wiring harness)?
I guess the ignition switch wasn't the problem since I had a repeat yesterday. Bike had been parked in the hot sun all afternoon; air temperature was 90F and the OAT meter read 102F. Turned on the ignition and couldn't start the bike. Indications were exactly the same as before: dim running lights, left headlight highbeam on dimly, right headlight off, no ABS or FI lights on, bike cranks but doesn't start. Upon disconnecting the battery, I heard a clicking sound from the left side of the bike near the seat, probably a relay deenergizing. Had to push the bike into some shade and let it cool off for 45 minutes before it would start.
So I'm pretty sure that the ignition switch isn't the issue. I'll try the plugs on the left side of the bike, maybe hit them with a heat gun this weekend and see if I can duplicate the problem. Anyone have any ideas (besides replacing the entire wiring harness)?
Interesting that no one has mentioned the Ground Cap recall........
http://stwiki.notonthe.net/twiki/bin/view/ST13/GroundCapRecall
Just a thought....
http://stwiki.notonthe.net/twiki/bin/view/ST13/GroundCapRecall
Just a thought....
I wonder what disconnecting these plugs on the left side would do while this condition exists?
I mentioned that ground recall issue to the dealer the very 1st time mine went in for this trouble. They had also been down thru the throttle bodies when replacing the alternator a few years before. But they went to the same location both times it happened and both times it was related to some kind of corrosion/deterioation in the plugs. They said they could have fixed it the cheap way by basically splicing around the plug but since it was a waranty fix they replaced the entire harness.
Good Luck, hope you are able to locate and resolve this for good.
I mentioned that ground recall issue to the dealer the very 1st time mine went in for this trouble. They had also been down thru the throttle bodies when replacing the alternator a few years before. But they went to the same location both times it happened and both times it was related to some kind of corrosion/deterioation in the plugs. They said they could have fixed it the cheap way by basically splicing around the plug but since it was a waranty fix they replaced the entire harness.
Good Luck, hope you are able to locate and resolve this for good.
Oops, a good ground connection is necessary before any meaningful trouble-shooting can be done. An intermittent ground would go along way in explaining some of the odd electrical behavior you've described.
Here's a link to a thread in the Articles section.
The rest of the story (again)
Since May I've had the same ongoing problem with my bike: intermittent motor stoppage with dim lights, no hazard lights, and the same indications as before. After being stuck on the side of the road during rush hour, Sunday I finally got around to taking off the left side middle cowling and doing some real troubleshooting.
I ran the bike until it was hot with the fan cycling numerous times to simulate the fault conditions. After ~15 minutes the bike stopped with the same indications as described earlier in this thread. Nothing looked obvious but when I wiggled the ignition switch plug the symptoms disappeared and the bike functioned correctly.
Since the male side of the plug was new (ignition switch replaced a few months ago) the issue had to be the female side of the plug. I pulled the terminations out of the plug, cleaned everything up, crimped the ends tighter, and put everything back together. Nothing looked amiss with any of the terminations (male or female ends), no corrosion evident with bright shiny brass everywhere, but hopefully this will resolve the problem and I don't have to worry about stalling out on my commute. I've attached pictures of the faulty plug location.
All wiring to/from the handlebars goes through the four plugs (left/right side handlebar controls, ignition switch, and optional quartet harness) shown. These plugs are located immediately on top the radiator inlet hose and are tucked under the frame and forward of the engine. You can see the heat discoloration of the protective rubber covering. Not a surprise that extreme heat could have an effect here.
Since May I've had the same ongoing problem with my bike: intermittent motor stoppage with dim lights, no hazard lights, and the same indications as before. After being stuck on the side of the road during rush hour, Sunday I finally got around to taking off the left side middle cowling and doing some real troubleshooting.
I ran the bike until it was hot with the fan cycling numerous times to simulate the fault conditions. After ~15 minutes the bike stopped with the same indications as described earlier in this thread. Nothing looked obvious but when I wiggled the ignition switch plug the symptoms disappeared and the bike functioned correctly.
Since the male side of the plug was new (ignition switch replaced a few months ago) the issue had to be the female side of the plug. I pulled the terminations out of the plug, cleaned everything up, crimped the ends tighter, and put everything back together. Nothing looked amiss with any of the terminations (male or female ends), no corrosion evident with bright shiny brass everywhere, but hopefully this will resolve the problem and I don't have to worry about stalling out on my commute. I've attached pictures of the faulty plug location.
All wiring to/from the handlebars goes through the four plugs (left/right side handlebar controls, ignition switch, and optional quartet harness) shown. These plugs are located immediately on top the radiator inlet hose and are tucked under the frame and forward of the engine. You can see the heat discoloration of the protective rubber covering. Not a surprise that extreme heat could have an effect here.
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One step forward, one step back
As usual, I didn't find the problem. Same thing occurred yesterday after ~15 minutes of a hot ride. Turned off the bike for 3 minutes and it wouldn't start again. Same symptoms: with key in run position, I had no right headlight, dim left headlight and running lights, the screen doesn't work, FI and ABS lights off, flasher doesn't work, bike cranks but doesn't start. Running lights and headlight stayed on with key in off. Had to disconnect the battery to turn the lights off. Upon battery reconnection, the same symptoms appeared. Waited ~10 minutes for the bike to cool down, symptoms disappeared and bike functioned normally.
Obviously my cure from Sunday wasn't the fix. I'll rexamine wiring in the vicinity of the plug since I know that I detected a problem there. Next step will be to run wire; I can back out the OEM red wire from the female end of the plug and run a new wire from the battery to the plug. That will remove any chance of a power problem on the bike side. It still could be an ignition switch but that's unlikely since it's almost brand new. We'll see if a new wire solves the problem. I'll also check the grounding issue since I didn't do that yet. Otherwise I'm guessing.
As usual, I didn't find the problem. Same thing occurred yesterday after ~15 minutes of a hot ride. Turned off the bike for 3 minutes and it wouldn't start again. Same symptoms: with key in run position, I had no right headlight, dim left headlight and running lights, the screen doesn't work, FI and ABS lights off, flasher doesn't work, bike cranks but doesn't start. Running lights and headlight stayed on with key in off. Had to disconnect the battery to turn the lights off. Upon battery reconnection, the same symptoms appeared. Waited ~10 minutes for the bike to cool down, symptoms disappeared and bike functioned normally.
Obviously my cure from Sunday wasn't the fix. I'll rexamine wiring in the vicinity of the plug since I know that I detected a problem there. Next step will be to run wire; I can back out the OEM red wire from the female end of the plug and run a new wire from the battery to the plug. That will remove any chance of a power problem on the bike side. It still could be an ignition switch but that's unlikely since it's almost brand new. We'll see if a new wire solves the problem. I'll also check the grounding issue since I didn't do that yet. Otherwise I'm guessing.
STDaveNW
Dave
David I have the same issue gong on except I have had no problems till washed the bike. Turn key on and only get neutral light, oil light, parking lights. Engine will crank but fuel pump not energized and no dash lights. Turn key back off and those conditions remain. The only way to stop it is to disconnect battery. I also hear the starter relay de-energize when disconnecting the battery. I have been thru all the same plugs with same results as you. I have not looked at the tip over switch yet or inside the dash itself. I did blow out both handlebar switches with air. I did not see any 16 wire plug behind the headlight panel. The link to the wiring schematic seems to have been removed anyone have one?I would like to take it down to kinko's and have it enlarged and laminated like my VFR's.
Twice now have I been stuck on the side of the road. Luckily the problem fixes itself after a few minutes of bike non-operation. I still suspect heat that affects a wire or plug, and I'll check the ignition plug on the left side, but I'm no longer convinced that there's only one problem. During my last failure, I operated the screen control; when pushing up the fault changed (not sure if it cleared). This happened several times. Could it be a problem with the wire bundle to the left side handlebar switches? I didn't see any wire rubbing, but will have to peel back the rubber covering along the whole line.
At least I can't trace this to water, I haven't washed the bike in years. My problems don't seem related to rain either, since I hadn't ridden through any rain prior to any of the failures.
At least I can't trace this to water, I haven't washed the bike in years. My problems don't seem related to rain either, since I hadn't ridden through any rain prior to any of the failures.
Wow, Four Months And Still It Dies!
Well this certainly is a persistent issue.
The last time I posted on this issue, I suggested either one (Red/Black, Blue/Orange) of the wires from the ignition switch could be related to the problem. Oops I goofed; when the starter motor turns the engine over then the Blue/Orange wire is functioning, as the Blue/Orange wire provides +12vdc to Fuse D (which in turn eventually energizes the Starter Solenoid Relay coil).
If I recall, the motorcycle ('03 ST1300/A) operates correctly for a while, and then suddenly stops with the following symptoms (ignition switch remains in the ON position):
Additionally, when the ignition switch is placed in the OFF position, these symptoms are observed:
Lastly, when the motorcycle has not run run for a period of time (or cooled off some), all the symptoms disappear and the motorcycle again operates correctly.
Some of these symptoms can probably be rationally explained away, the FI and ABS indicators may not re-illuminate until the ECM and the ABS Module have been first shut down (+12vdc removed). The Oil pressure indicator re-illuminates when oil pressure drops below a certain value, with the engine stopped, oil pressure is down to about 0psi.
The headlamps are a bit more difficult to rationally explain, as the RH headlamp receives +12vdc from Fuse E, after first passing through the Starter switch, and the High/Low Beam switch. However the LH headlamp receives +12vdc from Fuse I, after first passing through either the Headlamp High (LH) Relay, or the Headlamp Low (LH) Relay. Both relays are enabled only through the High/Low Beam switch which receives +12vdc from Fuse E (Yep, the same fuse that provides power to the RH headlamp). Not easily or rationally explained.
The symptoms that strike me as being truly odd (yes, the whole issue is odd) are the various lamps on at partial brightness. My experience with automotive tail lamps running at partial brightness, is that usually the circuit path to chassis ground has become compromised (corrosion, incorrectly installed bulb, ?), and the voltage finds a different (higher resistance) path to ground, thus completing the circuit, often with a lowered voltage, thus a dimmer illumination. While I don't imagine your issue is caused by corrosion (at the bulbs) nor incorrect bulb installation, I do think that for some reason the circuit path is changing, possibly due to heat, though more likely due to the movement of chaffed wires within the wire loom. There are quite a number of circuits (conductors) that have +12vdc potential, when the ignition switch is in the OFF position, anyone of which could be providing voltage in an unintended manner by way of chaffed wiring (aka short circuit).
I think if I were facing this issue I would focus my attention on two areas:
Common sense and patience will go along way to helping solve this issue, however I think luck is what you really need.
Well this certainly is a persistent issue.
The last time I posted on this issue, I suggested either one (Red/Black, Blue/Orange) of the wires from the ignition switch could be related to the problem. Oops I goofed; when the starter motor turns the engine over then the Blue/Orange wire is functioning, as the Blue/Orange wire provides +12vdc to Fuse D (which in turn eventually energizes the Starter Solenoid Relay coil).
If I recall, the motorcycle ('03 ST1300/A) operates correctly for a while, and then suddenly stops with the following symptoms (ignition switch remains in the ON position):
- Neutral indicator lamp ILLUMINATED.
- Oil pressure indicator lamp ILLUMINATED.
- Fuel injection indicator lamp NOT illuminated.
- ABS indicator lamp NOT illuminated.
- Starter motor turns engine over.
- Engine does NOT start.
- Running lamps are ON, but not at full brightness.
- LH headlamp high-beam is ON, but not at full brightness.
- RH headlamp is OFF.
Additionally, when the ignition switch is placed in the OFF position, these symptoms are observed:
- Oil pressure indicator lamp remains ILLUMINATED.
- Running lamps remain ON.
- LH headlamp remains ON.
Lastly, when the motorcycle has not run run for a period of time (or cooled off some), all the symptoms disappear and the motorcycle again operates correctly.
Some of these symptoms can probably be rationally explained away, the FI and ABS indicators may not re-illuminate until the ECM and the ABS Module have been first shut down (+12vdc removed). The Oil pressure indicator re-illuminates when oil pressure drops below a certain value, with the engine stopped, oil pressure is down to about 0psi.
The headlamps are a bit more difficult to rationally explain, as the RH headlamp receives +12vdc from Fuse E, after first passing through the Starter switch, and the High/Low Beam switch. However the LH headlamp receives +12vdc from Fuse I, after first passing through either the Headlamp High (LH) Relay, or the Headlamp Low (LH) Relay. Both relays are enabled only through the High/Low Beam switch which receives +12vdc from Fuse E (Yep, the same fuse that provides power to the RH headlamp). Not easily or rationally explained.
The symptoms that strike me as being truly odd (yes, the whole issue is odd) are the various lamps on at partial brightness. My experience with automotive tail lamps running at partial brightness, is that usually the circuit path to chassis ground has become compromised (corrosion, incorrectly installed bulb, ?), and the voltage finds a different (higher resistance) path to ground, thus completing the circuit, often with a lowered voltage, thus a dimmer illumination. While I don't imagine your issue is caused by corrosion (at the bulbs) nor incorrect bulb installation, I do think that for some reason the circuit path is changing, possibly due to heat, though more likely due to the movement of chaffed wires within the wire loom. There are quite a number of circuits (conductors) that have +12vdc potential, when the ignition switch is in the OFF position, anyone of which could be providing voltage in an unintended manner by way of chaffed wiring (aka short circuit).
I think if I were facing this issue I would focus my attention on two areas:
- All ground connections. Paying close attention to the Ground Cap Recall, and the common ground connection to the chassis, as well as the ground connection to the battery.
- Wiring loom left-side front. After removing the plastic fairings, carefully cut open the sheathing on the main wire loom located on the left-side with the White 24-Pin Connector, for approximately 6 to 8 inches to allow careful inspection of the individual conductors.
- Fuse Boxes, corrosion at the fuse boxes see link.
- Main Fuse B (65 amps), perhaps the fuse has a fatigue or stress crack that mostly remains closed, but under certain conditions (heat being an excellent condition) opens up.
- Battery, perhaps the battery has a unique fault that only becomes evident under certain conditions, a voltage meter temporarily installed might aid in identifying this.
- Bank Angle Sensor Relay, perhaps dirty contacts prevent the relay contacts from opening if/when the coil is de-energized... No, this is just wild speculation.
Common sense and patience will go along way to helping solve this issue, however I think luck is what you really need.
Re: Wow, Four Months And Still It Dies!
AD, you're the man! Hopefully I'll find some time this weekend to do more troubleshooting following your guidance, otherwise it'll have to be during next week (there are events that trump even a faulty ST). I'll check the grounding issues first, but where is the white 24P connector?
Unfortunately it's tough to get the fault to come in. When I'm on the side of the road, I don't feel much like peeling bodywork off and checking voltages. Have to do what I can. Much appreciate the guidance - I'm starting to lose my mind over this.
AD, you're the man! Hopefully I'll find some time this weekend to do more troubleshooting following your guidance, otherwise it'll have to be during next week (there are events that trump even a faulty ST). I'll check the grounding issues first, but where is the white 24P connector?
Unfortunately it's tough to get the fault to come in. When I'm on the side of the road, I don't feel much like peeling bodywork off and checking voltages. Have to do what I can. Much appreciate the guidance - I'm starting to lose my mind over this.
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Re: Wow, Four Months And Still It Dies!
I agree Dave that Anna's Dad is the man. You described my problem to a tee, I had to also dissconnect the battery to reset everything and also heard a loud click from under the seat when the battery was disconected. Just to bring everyone up to speed, I had the same problem as Dave back in March 2011 and this symtom has dissappeared from my bike. To make a long story short, here is where I "think" the problem was. The left hand harness was removed from the bike and inspected before I cut open the sheath coving the wiring. I found no damage to the sheath, but I contiued to cut open the sheath from the bottom to top. Once opened I inspected the 17 wires and all looked like new. No smoking gun in there. I then wrapped the 17 wires with good electical tape starting at the top, then going all the way to the bottom and then another wrap to the top. Where I live, I ride in a lot of rain and by wrapping it on the last wrap moving from the bottom to the top, the tape acts like shingles on yor house. Then I inspected the male/female plug where it plugs into. Hell, I removed all the plugs on the left hand side and inspected each connector for looseness and corrosion. Then I had a tube of siicon diaelectic grease and filled each connector with the lube to ward off corrosion. It took a bit to work the dialectic grease into the connectors. Put everything together and to my surpise, everything is back to normal. So to sum it up, the left hand wiring and the lower left side where all the plug in's is all I touched. Do I actually know were the problem is. No, Did I service all of the left side connectors and then add diaelctic grease to all of them, open up the left handle bar wiring, yes.
I agree Dave that Anna's Dad is the man. You described my problem to a tee, I had to also dissconnect the battery to reset everything and also heard a loud click from under the seat when the battery was disconected. Just to bring everyone up to speed, I had the same problem as Dave back in March 2011 and this symtom has dissappeared from my bike. To make a long story short, here is where I "think" the problem was. The left hand harness was removed from the bike and inspected before I cut open the sheath coving the wiring. I found no damage to the sheath, but I contiued to cut open the sheath from the bottom to top. Once opened I inspected the 17 wires and all looked like new. No smoking gun in there. I then wrapped the 17 wires with good electical tape starting at the top, then going all the way to the bottom and then another wrap to the top. Where I live, I ride in a lot of rain and by wrapping it on the last wrap moving from the bottom to the top, the tape acts like shingles on yor house. Then I inspected the male/female plug where it plugs into. Hell, I removed all the plugs on the left hand side and inspected each connector for looseness and corrosion. Then I had a tube of siicon diaelectic grease and filled each connector with the lube to ward off corrosion. It took a bit to work the dialectic grease into the connectors. Put everything together and to my surpise, everything is back to normal. So to sum it up, the left hand wiring and the lower left side where all the plug in's is all I touched. Do I actually know were the problem is. No, Did I service all of the left side connectors and then add diaelctic grease to all of them, open up the left handle bar wiring, yes.
Have you checked that the earth cap recall has been done, if not, I would get it seen to ASAP....... if it is relevant, which I suspect it may be, even if there is no fault with it, you should get it checked.
Troubleshooting assistance needed
To continue the saga, I was at work last Friday. The bike spent the day in FL sun with a temperature of 102F. When I went to start the bike, the exact same symptoms existed. I pushed the bike into the shade and waited ~2 hours; the symptoms remained the same. I had drained some battery power but the starter was still cranking over just fine.
Saturday I had to get a UHaul and trailer the bike home (the first time since 1991). The fault had remained in overnight. I spent the day troubleshooting the hard fault while documenting my results in the attached documents. I put the battery on a trickle charger to keep the battery from draining while I troubleshot the problem. On Sunday the fault cleared before I could identify it (therefore it must have been fixed).
I rode to work Monday and, when I got home, the fault came in momentarily. I no longer trust my bike and need to fix this problem. I'd appreciate anyone taking a look at my troubleshooting and offering suggestions.
Some elaboration: I talked to Honda who confirmed that the ground cap safety recall has been fixed for my motorcycle.
To continue the saga, I was at work last Friday. The bike spent the day in FL sun with a temperature of 102F. When I went to start the bike, the exact same symptoms existed. I pushed the bike into the shade and waited ~2 hours; the symptoms remained the same. I had drained some battery power but the starter was still cranking over just fine.
Saturday I had to get a UHaul and trailer the bike home (the first time since 1991). The fault had remained in overnight. I spent the day troubleshooting the hard fault while documenting my results in the attached documents. I put the battery on a trickle charger to keep the battery from draining while I troubleshot the problem. On Sunday the fault cleared before I could identify it (therefore it must have been fixed).
I rode to work Monday and, when I got home, the fault came in momentarily. I no longer trust my bike and need to fix this problem. I'd appreciate anyone taking a look at my troubleshooting and offering suggestions.
Some elaboration: I talked to Honda who confirmed that the ground cap safety recall has been fixed for my motorcycle.
- Joined
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- 8562
I'm not sure if you have done it yet, but the last thing I did to my bike with the same problem as yours is I removed the sheath off of the left hand switch bundle, checked for damage to the wires one by one and also put the wire bundle on the opposite side of the brake line that pinches it against the frame.
Also wiggle and make sure each wire is locked into the connector. Also clean this connector and add silicon diaelectric grease to it. Fill this connector full of this diaelectric grease.
Not sure if you have done that.
I feel that I had a wire that was stretched inside the left side bundle from my heli bar add on and no tears or rubs on the vinyl jacket made it not noticable.
Mine has been running with no events since I did this.
Call me if you want.
Cell Ph# under the RAN list folder
Also wiggle and make sure each wire is locked into the connector. Also clean this connector and add silicon diaelectric grease to it. Fill this connector full of this diaelectric grease.
Not sure if you have done that.
I feel that I had a wire that was stretched inside the left side bundle from my heli bar add on and no tears or rubs on the vinyl jacket made it not noticable.
Mine has been running with no events since I did this.
Call me if you want.
Cell Ph# under the RAN list folder
+1 for riders with this problem. My situation developed last week and now it simply will not start without showing the symptoms that David has. Unplugging the battery turns all the lights off and stops the relay's from clicking. Mine is an St1300A5 with 51,000 miles with various farkles. I have yet to take the airbox off or check the grounding point under the tank but that is coming soon.
Will keep the thread updated on progress which may help others. Can I also thank everybody that has already replied to this thread which has helped me.
Will keep the thread updated on progress which may help others. Can I also thank everybody that has already replied to this thread which has helped me.
Quickie update. My problems have now been resolved - at least for a while and hopefully they are fixed. After checking all connectors on the left hand side, the yellow earth plug in the front fairing, Ground Eath plug behind the engine, wiring to the left handlebar switch, etc. I had a small increase in earth resistance from wiring at the front of the bike but not from the frame. This led me to the earth point underneath the rear of the upper petrol tank. Once dissasembled and all contact points given a rub with very fine sandpaper my bike now starts. External appearance of the bolt and connectors looked fine if a little dirty. But it was definitely the problem as I checked the problem after each and every socket was cleaned/greased or checked.
Fingers crossed the problem does not reoccur. Now I will bleed the clutch and anything else I can think of whilst I am putting it all back together.
Hope it helps.
Fingers crossed the problem does not reoccur. Now I will bleed the clutch and anything else I can think of whilst I am putting it all back together.
Hope it helps.