Changing spark plugs ?

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
5,601
Age
55
Location
Northern Virginia
Bike
Fast Blue One
STOC #
4837
I just replaced mine. USE A TORQUE WRENCH WHEN YOU PUT THE NEW ONES IN!
I think that it is best to ground the gasket, then turn it in a specified amount.....to be specified by the manufacturer (for NGKs anyway).
You're both right. Most plugs are "x" number of turns after the washer makes contact with the cylinder head, when they're brand new. (For the Honda OEM plugs, "x" is half a turn.) When re-installing a used plug, torque it to 16 N-m or 12 lb-ft.

This is all covered in chapter 3 of the service manual.

--Mark
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
4,950
Age
62
Location
New Jersey
Bike
st1300 '04
STOC #
7163
You're both right. Most plugs are "x" number of turns after the washer makes contact with the cylinder head, when they're brand new. (For the Honda OEM plugs, "x" is half a turn.) When re-installing a used plug, torque it to 16 N-m or 12 lb-ft.

This is all covered in chapter 3 of the service manual.

--Mark
+1. If the hand tight part doesn't feel right STOP. The torque wrench isn't going to save you.
sp.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
3,357
Age
52
Location
Rindge, NH
Bike
2006 ST1300
I just changed mine this weekend with iridium plugs and was hoping for a world of difference. No change! :shrug1:
Bet I could of went 100,000 miles with the original plugs.
Its a spark plug...were you looking for any kind of noticeable change? If the ignition system is working properly, and the engine is in good condition, you shouldn't notice any change by replacing a functioning spark plug with a new one. You also won't notice a change by going to a performance coil, plug wires, etc. Those things can be helpful if the rest of the engine has been upgraded- different cams, compression ratio, running higher than stock RPMs on a race engine, etc. But unless your old plugs were old enough to be worn & performing poorly, or your engine has other issues and the plug(s) is fouled or dirty, simply replacing a plug won't change anything except extend the time until the next time you'll have to change it. This includes changing to iridiums. They can make the plug last longer, but unless your old plugs were worn, you shouldn't notice and seat of the pants change.

I have a new set of NGK Iridiums here to replace my originals which now have 84k miles on them. They still perform well except when cold, when I notice just a hint of a stumble when idling. I'll be curious to see what the old ones look like when I pull them. The last time I checked them was at 50k miles, a little over a year ago.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
1,610
Age
61
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Bike
1&2&3-2005 ST1300ABS
2024 Miles
001862
STOC #
8562
Its a spark plug...were you looking for any kind of noticeable change?
Yes, I was hoping for a change.
I have had the plugs for a few months and I was in no rush to install them. Helped my friend buy a 2006 ST1300 last week and found out that his starts faster than mine. He also has higher mileage than me. So, that was the change I was hoping on, a faster start. Now I'm talking milliseconds and not seconds here. His sounds like 750 milliseconds and mine is say over a second.
Plugs never did it, so thinking maybe a throttle body sync is the next task. Another plus for his bike is it has always been serviced by Honda and I don't think my bike has ever seen the inside of a Honda shop other than the initial delivery.
I have a new set of NGK Iridiums here to replace my originals which now have 84k miles on them. They still perform well except when cold, when I notice just a hint of a stumble when idling. I'll be curious to see what the old ones look like when I pull them. The last time I checked them was at 50k miles, a little over a year ago.
I was noticing a bit of stubble when I rode in the cooler weather too. Mine looked tan and ready to be put back in. We'll see if they did the trick in the fall in the cooler temperatures.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
3,357
Age
52
Location
Rindge, NH
Bike
2006 ST1300
I really need to do a sync as well. I guess I should get around to ordering up the tool.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
10
Location
Northern Colorado
Bike
'04 Honda ST1300
Many thanks for all the tips, especially about removing a couple of the bolts for the fairings, and not being timid about applying a little more than the usual pull to the plastic in order to get the rear plug boots out! :wt1:

I was experimenting with it today as I was doing my first oil change, knowing that I would be checking the plugs next in my "journey through the 24k mile service" for which my bike is due. I bought the bike at 25k miles, and while I have a few of the service records, the full 24k mile inspection had not been done, which I found out when the clutch failed. Not knowing what it was likely to be, I took it to the only local motorcycle dealer in town (Harley Davidson) who also has a certified Honda mechanic. He merely flushed and refilled the clutch system, and I was good to go - shifting as smooth as silk again!:cool:

It started me wondering what else had not been done, even though previous owner added some nice mods. I've decided to at least pull the old plugs and probably replace them with the suggested NGK CR8-EHIC-9 iridiums, which may be the best suited for Colorado, where I live - "medium" temp electrode, kind of a general purpose for the widely variable temps we regularly encounter! Looking forward to taking this next step in my "IniSTiaSTion" in caring for this extremely fun and very powerful bike!
 

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
5,601
Age
55
Location
Northern Virginia
Bike
Fast Blue One
STOC #
4837
I've decided to at least pull the old plugs and probably replace them with the suggested NGK CR8-EHIC-9 iridiums, which may be the best suited for Colorado, where I live - "medium" temp electrode, kind of a general purpose for the widely variable temps we regularly encounter!
The weather isn't what determines the heat range you should be using, it's what kind of riding you do. The colder (8) plug is called for when the engine spends most of its life running at high RPM for very long periods of time. For anything else, the hotter (7) standard plug is just fine. Installing colder plugs when you don't need them may result in fouling.

--Mark
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
10
Location
Northern Colorado
Bike
'04 Honda ST1300
Thanks for the correction! I'm just learning about all this spark plug temp stuff - never really concerned myself much with it on my 4-wheel vehicles - just got the recommended plugs, gapped 'em and installed 'em! With this additional bit of info, it looks like I should probably be running the CR7-EHIX-9 plugs - I'm not going to be racing the bike or spending the majority of my time riding uphill at high speeds! :D Since I am also going to be doing commute-type riding more than long rides (~20-25min one way, with occasional longer rides as I can fit them into my schedule), it seems like the hotter plug would probably be better, correct?

However, I have some additional spark plug related questions: the plugs I just pulled were CR7, and they had a significant amount of deposits on the ends (all four - see pics below), and also had oil on the outside rim, between the threads and the hex-nut. This was the case on all 4 plugs. So here's my questions:

  1. Is the oil "normal" or indicative of a problem? It puzzles me because I found about the same amount of oil on each plug. The 3rd from the left has less oil in the pic b/c I had wiped some off - it looked just like the others when I removed it.
  2. The plugs are obviously needing to be replaced as they have a significant amount of deposits on them - do I need to have the fuel/air mix adjusted to prevent this?
    • The previous owner put custom exhaust on the bike, but no indication that the mixture was adjusted.
    • When I took it in for clutch work recently, the Honda tech at the local non-Honda dealer said the mixture was probably needing to be adjusted due to the exhaust system. Apparently this can affect the required mix somehow, and can cause the mix to be too lean or too rich - something that they do on all their custom exhaust systems when they install them.
    • When I pulled the old plugs and looked into the cylinders, I could see deposits on each of the pistons - pics below are the ones that turned out the best, but are also the cylinders that had the least amount of visible deposits.
    • The previous owner used this bike to commute in often heavy traffic, which meant a lot of stop-go or slow riding while feathering the clutch to avoid jerky riding. It seems logical that this may affect the amount of carbon deposits in the cylinders and on the plugs.
  3. Is there a recommended fuel additive I could use to start cleaning this junk out of my engine? In my 4-wheel vehicles, I use the BG line of products, such as the 44k fuel system cleaner, when I get the vehicle and then yearly thereafter, but I don't know if it's OK to use in this small of an engine. Any thoughts?
 

Attachments

Paul

Happy Saturday!
Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
696
Location
Hilo Hawaii
Bike
08 ST13 05 VStrom 1K
STOC #
7599
The oil on the plugs is a normal occurrence. It is actually more of a concentrated fuel deposit that is forced up the threads during compression. The plugs do look a little dark, should be a light tan coloring on the tips. Have you changed the air filter? As far as I know there is not a mixture adjustment on this bike, as the ECU works with the oxygen sensors to control fuel mixture.
 

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
5,601
Age
55
Location
Northern Virginia
Bike
Fast Blue One
STOC #
4837
Since I am also going to be doing commute-type riding more than long rides (~20-25min one way, with occasional longer rides as I can fit them into my schedule), it seems like the hotter plug would probably be better, correct?
Yes, that's correct. Spark plugs are designed to do their best work at a certain temperature, and hotter plugs will soak up more heat. If you're doing a lot of riding at high RPM, the engine makes more heat and a colder plug will resist it to keep itself at the right temperature. For what you're doing, stick with the hotter plug. The generic NGKs that Honda sells as OEM seem to do well. The iridium plugs just last longer. Speaking of those, if you're going to use them, get the standard tip, as the IX may produce a different spark than the engine was designed for.

The plugs are obviously needing to be replaced as they have a significant amount of deposits on them - do I need to have the fuel/air mix adjusted to prevent this?
As Paul said, the FI system on the ST is closed-loop, programmed based on the assumption that the factory exhaust is fitted and is not reprogrammable. Dynojet had to give up when a firmware change in 2004 rendered the Power Commander useless. I have the stock exhaust and have never pulled the plugs on an ST with anything else, so I can't say whether the ECM will compensate properly for the aftermarket pipes. Based on how aggressively it fights modifications, I'm inclined to say that it does.

Your plugs do look a bit nasty, but if you don't know the service history, they could just be old. I wouldn't worry about the oil unless you're finding signs that the sealing washer is letting it escape.

Is there a recommended fuel additive I could use to start cleaning this junk out of my engine? In my 4-wheel vehicles, I use the BG line of products, such as the 44k fuel system cleaner, when I get the vehicle and then yearly thereafter, but I don't know if it's OK to use in this small of an engine.
I use 8 ounces of Sea Foam in a tank. 44K is pretty much the same thing everybody else is selling (petroleum distillates, mineral spirits and sometimes alcohol) at a much higher price (an 11-ounce can of 44K runs about $17 where a 16-ounce can of Sea Foam can be had for about half that). Displacement doesn't factor into it.

Make sure everything in the intake path up to the throttle bodies is clean and unobstructed, especially the air filter. (If you look at the butterfly valves and see what looks like black goop on the edges, that belongs there. Don't try to clean it and don't spray anything with carb cleaner.) Then install a fresh set of plugs and run a couple of tanks of treated fuel through it, doing as many highway miles as you can swing. You want to get the engine good and hot and give the fuel system cleaner some time to do its work. Resist the temptation to judge any improvements in performance while there's cleaner in the system; my unscientific observation has been that the stuff burns a lot better than straight gas.

--Mark
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
10
Location
Northern Colorado
Bike
'04 Honda ST1300
Mark and Paul - many thanks for your insights. I really appreciate it!

Just got back from my first ride after some service work, and the sluggishness I had been experiencing when opening up the throttle is completely gone! I've replaced the plugs, but I think the biggest difference was in the gas - it had set all winter (and we have the 10% ethanol gas here in Colorado) so I added some fuel treatment (about 4oz of HEET to the 2-3 gal of gas left in the tank) to hopefully take care of any "aging" of the gas or water that had condensed, and that seems to have cleared things up very nicely. No lag or stutter at all! Put an ear-to-ear grin on my face to feel the smooth and rapid surge of power again! It makes me realize the truth of one ST1300 review I read a while back stating that this bike really seems to "find it's groove" at about 105mph!

I have a new air cleaner on order, which should arrive in the next day or two, and I'll be looking for some Sea Foam to run in the next 2-3 tanks of gas to try to clean up some of the crud I saw in the cylinders. I'm taking it in for new fork seals and it's 24k inspection next week, and I'll take that time to quiz the service tech about some of these things (plugs, plug tips, fuel/air mix & adjustments, etc) and post more info to add to the general knowledge base.
 

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
5,601
Age
55
Location
Northern Virginia
Bike
Fast Blue One
STOC #
4837
I'm taking it in for new fork seals and it's 24k inspection next week, and I'll take that time to quiz the service tech about some of these things (plugs, plug tips, fuel/air mix & adjustments, etc)...
If you're taking it to a Honda dealer, don't expect much more insight than "we recommend the OEM plugs" and "the fuel/air mix is not adjustable."

My own biased opinion is that there's far more knowledge about the ST here than you'll find at any dealer.

--Mark
 
Top Bottom