Stuck in first gear

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Howard
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2008 ST1300
Ok folks, links lubed and clutch bled and still got a problem. In fact it seems I've made things worst. Now really clunks when going into first and when in first with the clutch fully in the rear wheel still turns. Nothing major, I can stop it easily with my hand, but this doesn't seem right....or does it? Do I need to try to bleed it again? Any ideas greatly appreciated.
 

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Joe
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I know with your bike in neutral and the bike on the center stand, the rear wheel will sometimes move, that's normal. Both my 3 year old ST and my 1 month old Yamaha will clunk into first.

Are you still stuck in 1st though?
 

Firstpeke

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It's not normal on mine......

IN the advanced course which we use, taken from the Police Riders Handbook to Better Motorcycling - "Roadcraft"... the correct technique is to remain in gear until it is safe to select neutral.
This involves stopping far enough behind the vehicle in front to select an escape route in the event that a following vehicle looks like it isn't going to stop..
Once clear to select neutral you sit with your hand holding the front brake and your left foot covering the gear lever.
If not on a level surface you would need to select first, change to holding the rear brake with your right foot, then move off using full throttle control with the right hand.

This system is of course flexible depending on safety needs due to the side slope or unevenness of the road surface.........

In regard to sticking gear change, this could be a combination of the selector mechanism requiring lubrication or adjustment, the bike requiring an oil change, a worn out clutch, or worse case, an internal selector fault such as a bent or damaged selector fork.
I would flush, change and bleed the clutch again, if that doesn't do it I would be looking to tear into the clutch plates to examine them.... otherwise it's the gearbox....
 
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Howard
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Ok, the saga continues... I have bled the clutch again using a syringe to conclude. I feel that there are definitely no air bubbles left in the system. Once I had done this I started the bike and put it in first, nice and smooth. With the clutch in the rear wheel no longer turns so I'm guessing the clutch is fully disengaging?? Turned her off, put the bottom fairing back on and decided to go for a spin feeling rather chuffed with myself... Problem! Trying to put it into first there was a horrible grating/crunching sound. Kicked it into gear, then into second, third, forth, fifth, forth, third, second but can't get it into first. Firstly it cluncked and the neutral light went out, as if it was in gear, and then the neutral light came back on. Gave it a really good kick and it crunched but went in. Decided that this isn't right and came running to the lap top. Help
 
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Howard
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I can try. never done anything like that before so not promising. It'll be a few days before I can do it. cheers
 
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Howard
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Just had a thought. When I did the last bleed I did it with the clutch reservoir cover still on by attaching the tube to the bleed valve, creating a vacuum with the syringe and then opening the valve. There were a few bubbles and then when it flowed without bubbles I closed the valve. This was when I first tried to put it in gear with no problems. I then decided to fill up the reservoir. It was after this that I got the problems. Would doing it like this have caused problems?? Thanks
 

Firstpeke

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Okay, little alarm bell going off in my head about slave cylinder seals here..... this rings a definite bell.... similar to the fault where the clutch gets iffy when the bike gets hot..... new slave and master cylinder seals cures it if I remember correctly.
 
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Howard
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Is that the smc that I've read about on here? That sounds like it's to do with the brakes, not the clutch/gears. Have I got this wrong? Are the two systems connected in some way?
 
Joined
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When I stop at a red light, I'm always in first gear and my eyes are checking the rear view mirrors.
+1 I had to make a quick move from a red light early one morning too keep from being sandwiched between the vehicle in front of me and a concrete truck screaming to a stop behind me. I think he would have got stopped before he hit me but did not want to find out.
 

BakerBoy

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Is that the smc that I've read about on here? That sounds like it's to do with the brakes, not the clutch/gears. Have I got this wrong? Are the two systems connected in some way?
Correct Howard, the SMC (Secondary Master Cylinder) is on the left brake caliber and is unrelated to the clutch. No interconnection whatsoever.

But back to your issue...did the clutch and gear shift seem to work 'normal' in other gears while underway (3rd, 4th, and 5th, for example)?
With the bike on the centerstand and in 1st gear (bike off), can you rotate the rear wheel by hand? Then while the clutch lever is pulled/held, can you still rotate the rear wheel by hand?

With bike off and someone gently rotating the rear wheel, can you clutch/gear change 1st through 5th, and back down? What abnormal sounds does it make? (it should make a single clunky noise as each gear is changed)

Sorry, lots of questions, but I/we can't make out what is going on without more info (or posting audio files for us). Thx
 

migresch

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WOW! You guys are much, much more adventurous than I am:bow1: I would have had my bike in the shop a long time ago:eek::
 
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Howard
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Correct Howard, the SMC (Secondary Master Cylinder) is on the left brake caliber and is unrelated to the clutch. No interconnection whatsoever.

But back to your issue...did the clutch and gear shift seem to work 'normal' in other gears while underway (3rd, 4th, and 5th, for example)?

Ok, Yes it appeared work fine in all other gears.

But that was yesterday



...It seems to be getting worse. Then better... then worse. Coming home from work last night it felt fine. Different to what it did before I started experiencing the problem in that it took a lot more pressure to go into first and I had to sustain the pressure on the lever for longer to ensure it went in but it was smooth.

Today...started the bike to move it around the yard and it took a huge kick to get it to clunk into gear.

Having said previously that I changed the clutch fluid again and felt that there was no air in the system as the rear wheel did not turn with the bike in first and the clutch in ie fully disengaged, I decided to revisit the lubricating the links idea just to make sure. I then started the bike again, a huge clunk and grate into first.

So I put it on centre stand and in first with the clutch in the rear wheel turns strongly. Too much to stop it by hand and I had to use the rear brake. Now not disengaging?

So I have now done the tests you asked and here are the bizarre results:

With the bike on the centerstand and in 1st gear (bike off), can you rotate the rear wheel by hand? Then while the clutch lever is pulled/held, can you still rotate the rear wheel by hand?

Having turned the bike off I could not get it into any gears either using the clutch or not. So I turned the bike on and put it into first and then turned the bike off. I couldn't turn the wheel either with the clutch in or out.

With bike off and someone gently rotating the rear wheel, can you clutch/gear change 1st through 5th, and back down? What abnormal sounds does it make? (it should make a single clunky noise as each gear is changed)

Couldn't try this as we couldn't get it into first with engine off.

Sorry, lots of questions, but I/we can't make out what is going on without more info (or posting audio files for us). Thx
Not sure if this helps. There doesn't seem to be any consistent behaviour with it. Thinking that the garage is the next stop ;0(
 

BakerBoy

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Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging, but it could be something else. Based on your description of how you're getting it into gear, it seems wise to get it looked at rather than continuing to use it and risking damaging internal parts.
 
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Howard
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Looks like I'll have to. This thing is spooky. Went to work on the bike this morning and as smooth as silk. Came home tonight and clunky into first, difficult to get into first and when sat at lights with clutch fully in, a blip of the throttle made the bike move forward. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to this... Terrified it's gonna cost a fortune.
 

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Joe
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Yup, clutch in and throttle makes it move forward is definitely the clutch in my opinion.

A couple here have replaced clutch plates, Subrasaber and STCPO.
 

Firstpeke

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If it's okay in the morning when cold, or cool, but not okay going home when it's hot, this again sounds like the clutch slave cylinder seals being affected by temperature..... if only I could find where this was discussed previously.

Edit; Found it, actually on my-mc forum....

http://www.my-mc.com/messages/1/107181.html
 
OP
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Howard
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2008 ST1300
Hi folks, Just another small update. Still intermittent. Spoke to my favourite independant mechanic and he thinks it could be the clutch plate/springs. It's booked in for next Wednesday so I'll let you know the outcome. I'll also tell him about the possible bleed issue at the banjo.
 
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Howard
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Hello again,
Just stripped the bike down for it's visit to the garage tomorrow re the clutch issue. Found a length of audio typr cable tightly wrapped arond the right hand radiator fan. Got it out but how do I establish what damge may have been caused.
Dont want to ride it as concerned about clutch.
Don't want to tell the garage as I may cause myself great expence.
Don't want to not tell the garage as any damage could cost/make things worse
Also wondering if this will have anything to do with the clutch issue. ie heat.
At mo when I start the bike it quite quickly and I think normally goes to 3 bars and stays there.
The fans turn freely with engine off. Is this normal?

Any thoughts really appreciated.
 
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