Battery Decisions

SteveST1300

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LiFePo batteries will die fast in the cold if they have a draw, and the STs have draws (Clock on the 1100 is enough to kill it) but if full strength in the cold they start oddly...using them creates heat that causes them to work better. I have a Ballistic on the Two Tone and in winter, if I miss a day of riding, I need to go start the bike of it will drop below the dreaded 10 volts.
The Shorai charger has a storage mode which draws the battery down to 80% charge and holds it there. This is supposed to be the optimum way to store the LiFe battery. If you want to ride simply hit the charge button or just start the bike and ride it will charge back up as you ride. I have done it both ways. I am starting the third year of use on my battery.
 

JPKalishek

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The Shorai charger has a storage mode which draws the battery down to 80% charge and holds it there. This is supposed to be the optimum way to store the LiFe battery. If you want to ride simply hit the charge button or just start the bike and ride it will charge back up as you ride. I have done it both ways. I am starting the third year of use on my battery.
Yeah, I been wanting to get a good charger but keep finding other things demanding my $$$. I
was looking at batteries for my other two in need the other night.
Likely will get a charger and the smaller battery for the CB, then after fixing the Black order one for it. But first, need new work boots. They give me $100 towards boots but I find I need at least $150 boots to not suffer, and $200 is better. ... egad, tires for me feets are as bad as the bikes!
 

BamaRider

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My original Yuasa went 7 years. But I ride my bikes year round. They seldom sit more than 3-4 days in a row.

The second Yuasa is now 3 years old and a little weak, but still turns the bike over. I fear the next cold snap will get it.

The RT now has a Yuasa. I forget the model number, but its the battery you have to prep. In exchange for 30 min of prep, I paid less than 100 dollars for it. (bike bandit) For over a year it has fired the RT up no problem. Once prepped and installed the battery is maint. free.

Look, I'm not gonna put a Chinese battery in one of my bikes.
 
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I think it is the recycling fee for the old battery. The old battery has to be taken to a special facility for disposal. "entsorgung" means disposal. Damned if I know what the rest of the letters on that line mean. Martin B. from Vienna would probably know, let's hope he reads this thread.

Apropos of other parts, I've been taking the bike to the same dealer for service for 12 years now. In that time I have figured out what a tire is (pneu), what fuel is (benzin), what brakes are (brems) and what a valve shim is (ventilplattechen). As for the rest of the stuff, I don't ask as long as it costs less than $100 for either the part or the labour.

This dealer and I have an agreement: I don't squawk about the bill as long as the bike never breaks down. So far, they have held up their end brilliantly. I base out of Zurich, but usually run several thousand miles away on each trip... last month was down to the bottom end of Greece, for example. Last thing I want is to be stuck in Albania or Ukraine or northern Norway with some kind of busted part or other breakdown. ST's are quite uncommon outside of the center of Western Europe and the UK.

Michael
Michael,
Can't fault you on your relationship with this dealer. I have a car mechanic like that. Honest as the day is long, and he does it right (though not to the level of aircraft maintenance). He is even mindful of the cost and tries to save me (and his other customers) money. I have never questioned his prices. We do, however, (grin) get in some spirited discussions about fixing things. Unfortunately, he, like most other people I meet, is human, and has made the occasional mistake. I wish you good luck and a long relationship with this dealership.

As far as the recycling cost for the old battery, my iMac tells me that 236 Swiss francs is almost $247 right now. That is astounding. Probably not out of line, but astounding. We have plundered this planet for the last few thousand years, and it appears that the next few generations are going to be paying for this big time in the next 50 or 100 years. How do we get away with a $5 or $10 'core' charge for an old auto battery in the USA? Surely recycling the battery and battery acid cannot cost almost $250. But then, maybe this is the real cost - a lot of our industries have been simply dumping waste for years. If GE were to factor in the billions spent to clean up the Hudson River what would electrical products really cost? If instead of a SuperFund, each industry charged up front for the real waste cost, what would we be paying for our bikes, nuclear weapons, etc?

Peter
 

ST1100Y

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As far as the recycling cost for the old battery, my iMac tells me that 236 Swiss francs is almost $247 right now.
Those SF 236,-/$ 247,- US were the costs for the new battery... the recycling fee were the SF 5,- in the line below that ;-)

If GE were to factor in the billions spent to clean up the Hudson River what would electrical products really cost?
What disturbs me in this eco-trend is that the lifetime and durability, hence the quality of stater batteries (and many other products!) has significantly decreased in the past 10~15 years...
Like the OEM battery of my '96 Toyota which flawlessly serviced me for 10 years, whilst whatever (brand/quality) battery I got for it in the recent past/today, is done every 2~3 years...
Or the Yuasa for my 1100 back in the 90ies, lasting 5~7 years... now their done in like 3 years, and when choosing a 3rd party vendor like Banner or Varta for 1/3rd of the price, I'll even only see about 1 year lifetime...
When inquired they try to excuse that with harsh environmental laws forcing them to use other, less harmful materials, thus today's stuff has different specs...
But I sense this is only a trick to triple/quadruple their turnover... the consumer is the idiot who has to buy new stuff more frequently... considering the by this increased production volumes (thus boosted pollution and waist, mostly "outsourced" into 3rd and 4th world countries, where something like "environmental protection" doesn't exists anyway), is the "advertised" benefit for nature/environment simply nil and void...
So its all about the money...
 
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I have had a Shorai life battery for 2 years I use their charger and the battery is great. When its cold you have to let the battery warm up which will feel strange at first but it works and the battery seems to be holding up very well so far.
Hey Steve about how cold is the battery when you have a no start and have to drain it a little to warm it up?
 
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cybervet

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Thanx to all for the great advice. I have a lot to think about. I do ride on average 2-3 times per week during the season. And on the Battery Tender over winter. I have almost no extra electronics that I leave on the bike when I finish riding each time, so I can't imagine what might be a drain. Maybe that USB power port is vampiring juice more than it's supposed to. GPS gets taken into the house every time I finish riding. I will investigate this as soon as I replace my malfunctioning multimeter.

I am of the type that likes to get the new thing on the market. This makes me want to get a lithium battery. But I hesitate to get something so pricey with such a short track record. I'm sure they will mature and become the standard to use, but I'm not sure they are there just yet. We will see. For those that are using one, please let us all know how well they work for you as time goes on.

As badly as I want to replace the battery right now, I think I will wait. Our season is drawing to an end here before too long. I'll see if I can nurse along for the rest of the year as it is. Seems silly to buy any new battery and then place it into storage in only a couple months. I always carry my AntiGravity jump starter pack with me. BUT, it's a pain to access the ST1300 battery. Time to put in that heavy duty pigtail wiring I've been planning on for jumping without taking off the plastic.
 

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I have almost no extra electronics that I leave on the bike when I finish riding each time, so I can't imagine what might be a drain.
I'm no 1300 expert, but there had been recalls on the HISS and the ABS control-unit suspected of having too high standby current...
Anyone having access/a copy of those Honda Service Notes?
 

SteveST1300

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Well I am into my 3rd year and the battery is fine a regular lead acid lasts about that long I get 5 lb weight savings from the LiFe battery and about 22 lbs from the Staintunes the weight savings is worth it.
 

CYYJ

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I am of the type that likes to get the new thing on the market. This makes me want to get a lithium battery.
Well, there is a difference between 'leading edge' and 'bleeding edge'. Maybe first you might want to ask Boeing about their experiences with lithium batteries...

 

T_C

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Well, there is a difference between 'leading edge' and 'bleeding edge'. Maybe first you might want to ask Boeing about their experiences with lithium batteries...

Not all batteries are created equal.
Different lithium.
 
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All lithium ion batteries and lead acid have a potential to cause issues.
The ones we have for motorcycles are lithium iron phosphate (a type of lithium ion battery) and less likely to go up in smoke.

fwiw quick search didn't find any web info on the pictured aircraft other than the fire was of undetermined cause and wasn't in the vicinity of the two lithium ion batteries in the dreamliner.
 

CYYJ

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Not all batteries are created equal. Different lithium.
Oh, sorry about that. :D The Ethiopian Airlines fire (the aircraft pictured above in post #35) was attributed to the lithium-manganese batteries in the ELT.

I should have posted the picture below, which is of the JAL 787 in which the plain old 'lithium-ion' main battery caught fire. The devil is in the details...
 
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cybervet

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As far as lithium battery fires, its is my understanding that most of the reason we now see LiFePO4 usage is vastly reduced fire risk. Old lithium formulations were very unstable.

As far as my battery choice, I'm still beating my head against the wall, going back and forth. I can find valid arguments in both directions.
 

T_C

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As far as lithium battery fires, its is my understanding that most of the reason we now see LiFePO4 usage is vastly reduced fire risk. Old lithium formulations were very unstable
All the smaller devices, ones needing maximum battery capacity in the smallest area (cellphone, tablet, laptop) are the other Li chemistries (even within Lithium Manganese there are several formulas). Those are ones not needing extremely high discharge rates (like an engine-starter or power tools), for the high rate and less capacity per cubic volume, it's LiFe.

LiFe is extremely unlikely to catch fire, even when sliced open, or when dead shorted. BTDT 2x.

They are all Li-Ion.

The other thing pushing LiFe to our car/motorcycle is the voltage lines up really good with traditional lead-acid.
 
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ST1100Y

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...which is of the JAL 787 in which the plain old 'lithium-ion' main battery caught fire. The devil is in the details...
Indeed it is...
AFAIK is it still unclear if the fault was actually caused by the battery (design, part failure, others...), or by an inaccuracy of the charging unit (not made by Yuasa BTW...), or the engineers of both MFGs simply had a "lost in translation"-issue while communicating the specifications...
 
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