'08, 69.5K. Most at or exceeding limits

[Al-Hala]

Greetings, all.

I've just completed my third go-round on the valve clearance worksheet (first time checking them) and I'm doubting my technique/tools.

On the exhaust side, I've six at 0.008", one at 0.007", one at 0.009".
On the intake side, I've seven at 0.005", one at 0.006".

Criteria: 16 degrees C when checked, only a couple were little friction vs. lots; most were slide vs. no movement possible. Index mark lined up at the centre of the point in the case, verified the cam gear lines.

I've used both my Listle go-no-go feelers, as well as a cheap Chinese set. They agree on the single cylinder I cross checked. I've not yet pulled out my micrometer to check them. I've passed through the point of recognizing when I'm pulling back with too much oil on the blade vs. a smear.

Reading through the forums, I've not seen such a edge case, which is why I'm doubting my conclusions.

Any thoughts/critiques welcome.

 

[BakerBoy]

Sounds like you've double-checked and been judicious. I also don't recall reading of one where the clearances are mostly all tight, so perhaps triple-checking is worth it. A couple thoughts based on what I learned doing mine to get better confidence, which may be helpful if you recheck:

• I got a different feeling of tightness if the feeler gages weren't flat to the bucket surface--I ended up dismantling the feeler gage pack so each feeler gage was individual/unattached, then bending each one so that I wasn't binding the gage at an angle while inserting.
• Make sure to debur the leading edge of the feeler gages (some have a very fine lip on them which causes the leading edge of the gage to be over-thick).
• Try layering feeler gages in different thickness combinations. Of course, keeping oil and debris out of their mating faces, insert the thicker of the two gages first, then slide in a thinner of the two gages to double-check. Doing that let me get the measurement better and allowed thickness combinations which I didn't have in the measurement range. For example, a 0.009" clearance that felt tight would be repeated with a 0.006" and a 0.0025" gage, then a 0.003" gage, etc.

 

[Al-Hala]

My thanks for the thoughts, BakerBoy. They're well considered.

the gages I have were from machining; none are really suitable for tight angled motorcycle work. One of the reasons I put aside the go-no-go set was the extra thickness in the blade made it more difficult to bend them in place. I've read others prefer ones with a bend in them for ease of approach angle, and I've not seen any for sale such as those used in the YouTube video.

 

[dduelin]

Like BakerBoy I use the 6 relevant ones I remove from a set of straight blades. Five, six, seven thousandths for intakes and nine, ten, and eleven thousandths for exhausts. I bend the tips up at an angle that gives me mostly a straight shot at the gap and the tip is bent to be flat against the bucket. I just checked mine last night after a 32,000 mile interval. I was pleased that all passed and only one valve closed any (an exhaust that closed from .010 to .009).

 

[Nashcat]

A good set of feeler gages is the individual blade set from Precision Brand, 19G20 set. I've had my set for about 30 years, with a few of the blades bent, for specific jobs. Prices vary widely, so shop around. They're much easier to use than the folding sets and higher quality than most.

 

[dwalby]

(first time checking them) and I'm doubting my technique/tools.

On the exhaust side, I've six at 0.008", one at 0.007", one at 0.009".
On the intake side, I've seven at 0.005", one at 0.006".

I've not seen such a edge case, which is why I'm doubting my conclusions.

you didn't say anything about the maintenance history of this bike, has it ever been adjusted before?

If it had never been adjusted before those numbers wouldn't seem unreasonable, they're not that far out of spec, but its a bit unusual for that many to be out of spec. Another possibility is the valves were previously adjusted a little too tight by someone else.

 

[Al-Hala]

ddueln: My sincere thanks for your input on my quandry; I've a considerable number of your posts bookmarked for reference, they are, in my opinion, invaluable reference material.

Nashcat: My sincere thanks for that source. They look quite suitable. I try to buy quality when I can.

With regards to finding a set locally, I'd visited two NAPA and two other big box stores; all out. I caved in and bought a set from (surprise) Lee Valley; surprisingly, they mic'd closer to the nominal values than my other two sets (0.1010", vs. 0.1025 and 0.1035). The difference, of course, is minor.

dwalby: No, I didn't. I'm not aware of it. The 'cycle is new to me, and has had two previous owners.

The research I pulled on the bike showed some scattered service history years ago at three different dealers, but no detail records of what was done. The latest previous owner told me he did required work himself.
Edit: I'd belatedly remembered I'd had another local dealer pull up a list of items they'd do if I brought it to them, and the valve check/adjustment was one of the (many) line items.

Considering I've just had to pay $60 CDN to have the fork caps torched (they sneered at all my combined efforts of PB Blaster, percussion, inversion, 17mm hex bar, 125 ft-lb 17mm impact, inflammable cursing and voodoo) I STRONGLY suspect some areas received less attention than that recommended by Honda.

Did I mention those previously referenced caps are now 19mm irregular oval sockets, and unavailable anywhere in Canada until the middle of June? :1st: I've a choice of using my CNC mill to fabricate a spanner to ahem, span the decorative hemisphere cut-out pattern surrounding the cap and reuse these, or crash rush a set from the U.S.A.

Back to the subject at hand, I'd agree with your points. I did talk with a local dealer, who seemed to think my numbers were not TOO unreasonable. Another search of the forum turned up someone who had 7 to replace on the exhaust...

The new, longer set of feelers agree with the previous two, so I've bitten the stick and ordered in the Hot Cam kit.

 

[dwalby]

Considering I've just had to pay $60 CDN to have the fork caps torched (they sneered at all my combined efforts of PB Blaster, percussion, inversion, 17mm hex bar, 125 ft-lb 17mm impact, inflammable cursing and voodoo) I STRONGLY suspect some areas received less attention than that recommended by Honda.

I suspect the problem is they received far more attention (torque) than recommended by Honda. I've never had any issue with cracking those open on my 1100 with more than a firm push, suspect the 1300 are similar. The inside has oil flying around all the time, it seems unlikely that the threads could corrode on their own due to neglect, but I can't say for sure.

 

[Al-Hala]

Could be; no way of knowing. Aluminum forms an oxide coating that, against aluminum, melds and makes for bad times. Stainless steel against stainless steel, if the thread peaks are too sharp, does the same (cold welding/galling). Aluminum against steel normally isn't much of an issue.

Having said that:


The black substance is what I assume remains of carbonized o-ring/oil once they were done with it; the other is cleaner. Under magnification, there's a seemingly large amount of tearing/galling in the threads. I've not yet attempted to work a thread file down them.

 

[dwalby]

Just curious what kind of tools you used on it that caused so much damage to the center hex section? Seems like it may have been a sloppy fit to do that much damage. Also, you mentioned an impact wrench earlier, did you remove the fork tube from the triple clamp and then hit it with an impact driver? If so, you may have had better luck just loosening the top triple clamp and try to break it loose with a long breaker bar while the tube is still held by the lower triple clamp.

 

[ToddC]

Could be; no way of knowing. Aluminum forms an oxide coating that, against aluminum, melds and makes for bad times. Stainless steel against stainless steel, if the thread peaks are too sharp, does the same (cold welding/galling). Aluminum against steel normally isn't much of an issue.

Having said that:


The black substance is what I assume remains of carbonized o-ring/oil once they were done with it; the other is cleaner. Under magnification, there's a seemingly large amount of tearing/galling in the threads. I've not yet attempted to work a thread file down them.

I hope this wasn't addressed in an earlier post and I missed it..... If so..sorry in advance. A silly question....you did loosen the top triple clamp on the fork before you tried to take the cap off....right...?? I only know through my own missteps. .
Other wise looks like someone way over torqued those caps.

ToddC

 

[Al-Hala]

I'd have to check with the dealer regarding tools; their efforts resulted in the crater that once was a machined socket.

When I turned the complete forks over to them, I'd only started to mar the sockets; my tools still fit in them reasonably snug, if not the perfect socket fit I would have liked.

the bike has Gen 2 risers installed, so I followed other's examples and dropped them down to where I could fit the 17mm Allen key and 17mm hex impact socket without interference. Neither method worked. I even put enough leverage on to start to turn the fork in the clamp, at which point I re-torqued the lower clamps, and repeated.

I then attempted penetrant in a knowingly forlorn hope it would make its way past the o-ring. Once that predictably failed, I inverted the forks, and left them for 8 hours to soak. Again, failure. Then I reinstalled them in the clamps, and used my largest "mallet of loving correction" to impact the impact socket on the cap, until I ran out of colorful and vulgar statements. Again, no luck.

At that point, I gave in, called the dealer, and succumbed to the dreaded "minimum charge". The result is a admittedly qualified success; I can now access the fork internals. Replacement caps are (hopefully) on the way from Partzilla.

 

[Al-Hala]

I hope this wasn't addressed in an earlier post and I missed it..... If so..sorry in advance. A silly question....you did loosen the top triple clamp on the fork before you tried to take the cap off....right...?? I only know through my own missteps. .
Other wise looks like someone way over torqued those caps.

ToddC

Hello ToddC! no worries. I indeed did loosen it. In fact, I couldn't access anything but the black cap until I loosened the top clamp and dropped the forks, due to the 2nd gen riser clearance issue.

 

[Al-Hala]

And lo! Amazon one-day shipping has delivered my coveted valve shim kit. I know what I'll be doing in the coming days...