Deespeak Lithium batteries?

[ST1100Y]

While browsing I stumbled over this gem...

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BBG4RRLC/?coliid=I1S02FVSE7U4R&colid=9MQRUK4NCGB2&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

No clue about the MFG, but I seriously like the idea/concept of using the full avail space creating a large battery, resulting in 9Ah... (specs list a weight of 1.6kg vs the NOCO at 0.83kg @ 4Ah...)

The price of € 160,- wouldn't scare me as a Yuasa comes for € 145,- but will peg out chemically within a year...

 

[Sadlsor]

Is weight savings the primary attraction of lithium batteries?
I've not felt the need to take a serious look, due to some caveats in using them, even though I honestly don't remember what their drawbacks are...

 

[ST1100Y]

Is weight savings the primary attraction of lithium batteries?

Weight (and size) is an issue for cafe racers, race bikes, and possible moto crossers... not so much in a +700lbs ST...
I like them Lithiums over their supposed immortality on getting fully discharged, and the quick recharge (my NOCO takes about 40 minutes from fully flat to "green, lets go!"
All conventional batteries die chemically (hence permanently) when depleted... and I've grown tired of replacing them every spring... they're not that cheap after all (and the cheap no-name ones last even less...)
Just had the episode with the '94 ST, last year's AGM won't recover anymore, max voltage right after charging 12.5V... back in the motorcycle all you get is a rattling starter relay and dimming dash lights...
Sorry, I'm not a daily rider, I just can't... thus I need some reliable solutions there...

 

[ST Gui]

I like the terminals on that battery. Each allow for the traditional cable connection as well as another point for other connections that need to be or are desired to be made at the battery. A jumper lead or voltage meter come to mind.

 

[Roger]

I don't understand why so many batteries give such bad service?
1999 > 2008 - I changed my OEM Yuasa just as a precaution - for a Bosch branded one.
2008 > 2022 - The Bosch felt a little tired at start-up on a cold day, so was changed for similar.
I have a solar cell with output regulated to 13.8v that gets plugged in when the bike is put away. - That's it, nothing fancy!

 

[ST1100Y]

I don't understand why so many batteries give such bad service?

Maybe the EC's RoHS directive... maybe to increase turnover... but since the millennium conventional batteries fail rather quick...

 

[Gerhard]

I like them Lithiums over their supposed immortality on getting fully discharged, and the quick recharge (my NOCO takes about 40 minutes from fully flat to "green, lets go!"

Shorai warns against fully discharging their lithium batteries as they won’t take a charge once they go below 12 volts.

I now have an Antigravity battery that has a built in BMS that shuts the battery down before it fully discharges, actually reserves enough energy to allow starting the bike after pressing a button on on the battery.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

All conventional batteries die chemically (hence permanently) when depleted... and I've grown tired of replacing them every spring ......

Maybe the EC's RoHS directive... maybe to increase turnover... but since the millennium conventional batteries fail rather quick...

I have never had an OEM Yuasa or it's Yuasa listed replacement fail prematurely. They usually last me 6 or more years. That is fairly consistent since around 1985 until today.

Based on nothing but my own experience I would ask, what are you doing to them?

 

[ST1100Y]

Shorai warns against fully discharging their lithium batteries as they won’t take a charge once they go below 12 volts.

The integrated BMS should/does prevent/control such... means the BMS shuts down, but resumes once it senses a charger's voltage present...
NOCO manages, leave the ST too long: no output... attach the (designated) charger: "click" -> LEDs start to blink... ~40 min later: green... 13.5V...

Based on nothing but my own experience I would ask, what are you doing to them?

Like you I saw a battery lifetime of ~5 years from '92 onward... and I'm having the same accessories installed ever since... the only additional un-switched thing was/still is the preset/station memory of the car stereo...
And like said, due to job reasons I'm not a daily rider, can happen that an MC is grounded for like 6 weeks... was OK in in the past, put it on the charger over night, ride on...
But these days 1~2 discharge incidents and the (conventional) battery is toast... and in weird ways like indicating 12.5V but dropping totally under load (increased internal resistance)...

 

[Mellow]

I'm not a daily rider, can happen that an MC is grounded for like 6 weeks... was OK in in the past, put it on the charger over night, ride on...

I'm also not a daily rider. But, I won't let the bike sit for several weeks without putting on the battery tender. I'll put it on the tender at least once a week for a few hours to a couple days.

I don't leave the charger on all the time because I want to know if it's failing and I see that in how long it takes the tender to charge to full. My RT is only a couple years old but the tender starts blinking immediately which indicates it's withing 80% of a full charge and only a couple mins later it's solid green.

If that starts taking longer then it's something to pay attention to.

Not hooking up to the tender for weeks, assuming that's what you're doing based on your comments, I think will let the battery discharge too much especially if you have a small parasitic drain you aren't aware of.

 

[ST1100Y]

I'm also not a daily rider. But, I won't let the bike sit for several weeks without putting on the battery tender.

Nice thought, not an option in the public sub-level garage of an apartment complex...
(whilst they do consider to actually install EV charging stations down there... )
So if drained I'd either grab the boost-kit, or remove the battery, carry it to the designated charging station on my kitchen counter (right behind the Nespresso unit ) and "reload"...

Another though is that this practice (having it always on a trickle/tender) can easily camouflage a battery failure/sulphation creeping up... always nice cranking when leaving in the morning, as well ~8hrs later when leaving work/whatever and again on the charger upon arriving home...
But when like 1~2 weeks away with no overnight tether/APU attached... like deep in the Alps or up in Scandinavia, you might suddenly find your bike barely cranking (if at all) one morning...

Hence I'm circling around the (hopefully) indestructible LiPoSO4 cells, as long as they have a reliable & safe BMS embedded...

Those NOCO's perform great so far, massive amps, stable voltage, never had them bikes so happily cranking and promptly firing before...
A slightly larger total (standby) capacity would be nice to have though...

 

[Mellow]

I did get a shorai for the Super Ten and then transferred it to the Tracer 900 and I would let that one site for weeks... then hook up a battery tender (one w/Lithium and acid switch) and it would charge very fast. So, the discharge rate was very low. I agree, with your situation, a lithium sounds like the best option.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-Junior-Charger-Maintainer/dp/B06X9GGNZC/ref=sr_1_1_ssp

 

[ST1100Y]

I did get a shorai for the Super Ten and then transferred it to the Tracer 900 and I would let that one site for weeks... then hook up a battery tender (one w/Lithium and acid switch) and it would charge very fast. So, the discharge rate was very low. I agree, with your situation, a lithium sounds like the best option.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-Junior-Charger-Maintainer/dp/B06X9GGNZC/ref=sr_1_1_ssp

Yep, the NOCO Genious5 recharges the NLP14 within 40 minutes... so just a slight delay of the voyage, contrary the 24~36hrs smart charging regime on a conventional AGM...

 

[ST1100Y]

BTW: the latest victim is an EXIDE ETX14-BS (AGM), aprox one year old... going for € 70,- over here, making it mid-priced...
36hrs charging, unit signals charging circle complete/successful...
Detaching the charger's gator clamps and placing the multi-meter probes on the terminals show 13.4V at first, but progressively decreasing down to 12.5V within seconds...
The load tester shows "good" in idle, but "dead" for dropping to 7.1V under load... which pretty much confirms it's performance in the '94 ST: bright dash lights until you hit the button...
And this battery even was nursed on a trickle/tender due the '94 being stationed at the shed, relocated to my sub-lever garage only two weeks ago, still chemically dead though...

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Like you I saw a battery lifetime of ~5 years from '92 onward... and I'm having the same accessories installed ever since... the only additional un-switched thing was/still is the preset/station memory of the car stereo...
And like said, due to job reasons I'm not a daily rider, can happen that an MC is grounded for like 6 weeks...

I obviously don't know the particulars as I am not there, and I also know from your posts that you are very competent at maintaining your motorcycles. What you have written gives me the impression that the problem is not the OEM replacement batteries, but rather that there is a constant drain on the battery beyond what the OEM battery is designed to handle.

Leaving a motorcycle that has a parasitic drain that does not exceed the manufacturer's specified limits will not drain the battery to the point that it can not start the engine after only 6 weeks. When I had multiple motorcycles I would regularly leave at least one of them for at least that long. I never used a battery tender/charger of any kind and they would still start the engine with no problem. I live in a country where riding stops for a long cold winter. Many people do nothing to their battery over the entire winter and it still starts the motorcycle.

It sounds as though the real problem is a constant drain beyond the OEM batteries capacity to deal with, and you have solved that problem by changing to a different type of battery that is capable of handling that scenario. This has solved all of the problems that you were encountering, which is all good and ultimately the goal.

 

[DannoXYZ]

BTW: the latest victim is an EXIDE ETX14-BS (AGM), aprox one year old... going for € 70,- over here, making it mid-priced...
36hrs charging, unit signals charging circle complete/successful...
Detaching the charger's gator clamps and placing the multi-meter probes on the terminals show 13.4V at first, but progressively decreasing down to 12.5V within seconds...
The load tester shows "good" in idle, but "dead" for dropping to 7.1V under load... which pretty much confirms it's performance in the '94 ST: bright dash lights until you hit the button...
And this battery even was nursed on a trickle/tender due the '94 being stationed at the shed, relocated to my sub-lever garage only two weeks ago, still chemically dead though...

Traditional top-shelf lead-acid batteries have been slipping in quality for more than decade. Used to get 10+ yrs from Yuasa, no more. I suspect since it's dead-end technology, QA isn't important any more and many marginal samples are slipping through. And updating and maintaining production-lines isn't probably top-priority. Everyone's going to lithium, including Honda OEM batteries. I haven't used lead-acid battery for 10-yrs now, on anything. Not even in my lawn-mower! I've got 6 bikes with lithium batteries between 10-12yrs old.

Main benefit is BMS, has saved battery many, many times when I left headlights on accidentally. Or short caused parasitic drain unexpectedly. Each and every drain on lead-acid shortens its life. And being able to charge lithium battery at 10C, 15-amps is awesome!!! Although that's extremely rare since BMS disconnects battery from harness when danger-threshold is reached. When BMS is triggered to re-connect battery, there's often enough charge to start bike anyway.

NOTE: remember to double lithium's capacity or half lead-acid's when making comparison.