More brake woes

[the Ferret]

Earlier this year I had my local shop install new brake pads front and rear and change the fluid and bleed the brakes and clutch. I've had nothing but problems ever since. It's was back twice for the rear brake. It would have to be pumped to work, and the pedal would depress about 3 inches with nothing happening. After the third time in the shop it seemed to be working, so I took it on a little tour of Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, and Wyoming. 2nd day into the trip and the rear brake is no longer functioning properly. No rear brakes at all. Pedal would go all the way down with no effect. I rode Going to Sun Highway, Rattlesnake RT 129, Lewis and Clark Highway, Beartooth Pass, and Yellowstone with no rear brakes. Good thing the ST has outstanding front brakes.

Anyhow bike is back at shop now. Crossing my fingers they get this thing figured out. Wish I had left the old fluid in there. At least it worked. Love the bike when everything's working right . Hate it when it's not.

What good is a braking system so complicated that factory trained mechanics can't figure it out and make it work?

 

[970mike]

It sounds like the system was not bleed properly and you still have air in the system. Most Honda shops do not know how to properly bleed the linked system on our bikes.

You may want to have one of our members in your area help you bleed the brakes.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Jrnyer]

If I could do it, anyone can :22yikes:

Although I didn't use a brake bleeder, I followed this and never looked back----->https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement

This is really simple, the hardest part was removing the tupperware!

 

[Geoff]

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement

This is exactly what you want. It comes from a member on the forum whom graciously spent a ton of time putting it together. I am as handy as a one armed paper hanger but if you proceed EXACTLY as he explains you can do it or take your laptop down to a good mechanic with wifi and have him folllow the steps. The pics all blow up and its divided into sections...its the way to go...good luck

 

[Geoff]

If I could do it, anyone can :22yikes:

Although I didn't use a brake bleeder, I followed this and never looked back----->https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement

This is really simple, the hardest part was removing the tupperware!

Good deal you beat me by three minutes lol when you take the tupperware off lay out the bolts and screws exactly as they come off. a sheet of paper on the floor with a marker may help.

 

[Jrnyer]

The op could use this----->http://www.touringmotorcyclists.com/tech_tips/st_tech_tips/front_fairing_removal.html

-and

this----------->https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?73238-ST1300-TupperWare-Worksheet

 

[the Ferret]

Seriously, I have almost zero mechanical abilities. Put a tool in my hand and two things happen 1.. Something gets seriously buggered and 2 ..I bleed. something as simple as an oil and filter change is a messy half day affair for me, and even then I worry for the next 1000 miles that I didn't get the drain plug or filter properly tightened. No I'm better off paying someone else, even if it takes them multiple tries to get it right.

It seems all the guys with any knowledge on these things are either in Florida or California . Nobody in Ohio or northern Kentucky ever seems to post on these boards about fixing stuff. If someone from Ohio, Kentucky or Indiana even could help I'd be glad to drive to their home, hold or fetch tools, and pay them for their time.

 

[stgolfer]

As said above, print out all the brake bleeding info given to you in the links above and have them follow it!!! It is different than any other bike and if not done FULLY and in the correct sequence, they WILL screw it up. It's very simple if done right, but if you do it out of order, or take a shortcut, or do it like you would a different bike, it WON'T be done right.

 

[scooterdoc]

As said above, print out all the brake bleeding info given to you in the links above and have them follow it!!! It is different than any other bike and if not done FULLY and in the correct sequence, they WILL screw it up. It's very simple if done right, but if you do it out of order, or take a shortcut, or do it like you would a different bike, it WON'T be done right.

when done right, not hard, and results in radleak:

if you come up with some good ideas and shortcuts, usually results in :banghead:

 

[Igofar]

when done right, not hard, and results in radleak:

if you come up with some good ideas and shortcuts, usually results in :banghead:

Or you could page Igofar on the white courtesy phone and he could explain how to bleed the entire system without removing ANY body pannels.
Or simply search for my brake bleeding shortcut thread....but I do so like talking to folks on the phone

 

[the Ferret]

Just picked the bike up from the dealership. Service manager said they bled a "big ol" air bubble out of the rear brakes. Said it must have been in the system and worked it's way to where it stopped the rear brakes from working. At any rate brakes feel great now. We will see if it stays that way.Cross your fingers.

 

[Igofar]

Just picked the bike up from the dealership. Service manager said they bled a "big ol" air bubble out of the rear brakes. Said it must have been in the system and worked it's way to where it stopped the rear brakes from working. At any rate brakes feel great now. We will see if it stays that way.Cross your fingers.

Your comment scares me..."they bled a big ol air bubble out of the rear brakes"... The first thing this makes me think of is that they didn't follow the correct
bleeding procedure in the manual. I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like they only bled the rear master cylinder. Alot of shops either don't know how, or don't follow the correct procedure in the service manual because it takes too long and they don't make money.
For peace of mind, I'd call or visit the dealership, and ASK how they bled the brakes. Make them tell you the order in which they bled the system.
I'll bet ya a piece of pie, they won't mention the PCV (under the tupperware) and probably didn't tilt the left front caliper.
If they didn't do this correctly, it could be just a short lived repair, that could develop more problems down the road.
Just sayin'
.02

And as far as not having confidence in your ability to do this work, If you can ride, shift, brake and steer, you can do this job!
There are plenty of wonderfull members on this forum who would be willing to assist you if needed.
Good luck, and ride safe.
Igofar

 

[Igofar]

Just picked the bike up from the dealership. Service manager said they bled a "big ol" air bubble out of the rear brakes. Said it must have been in the system and worked it's way to where it stopped the rear brakes from working. At any rate brakes feel great now. We will see if it stays that way.Cross your fingers.

Not to high jack the thread or change the subject, by I just read your "bikes owned" at the bottom. I've had several of the same bikes!
65 XLCH, 49 pan, 47 Knuckle, 66 Honda CB160, CL77, Black Bomber 450, CB750 GT380, 550, and Waterbuffalo 750. Not to mention Several RD's, XS650's and Triumph's. Now I know you can bleed those brakes. PM or call if you need assistance.

 

[Booger Man]

Your comment scares me..."they bled a big ol air bubble out of the rear brakes"... The first thing this makes me think of is that they didn't follow the correct
bleeding procedure in the manual. I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like they only bled the rear master cylinder. Alot of shops either don't know how, or don't follow the correct procedure in the service manual because it takes too long and they don't make money.
For peace of mind, I'd call or visit the dealership, and ASK how they bled the brakes. Make them tell you the order in which they bled the system.
I'll bet ya a piece of pie, they won't mention the PCV (under the tupperware) and probably didn't tilt the left front caliper.
If they didn't do this correctly, it could be just a short lived repair, that could develop more problems down the road.
Just sayin'
.02

And as far as not having confidence in your ability to do this work, If you can ride, shift, brake and steer, you can do this job!
There are plenty of wonderfull members on this forum who would be willing to assist you if needed.
Good luck, and ride safe.
Igofar

Hey listen to this man . He speak with straight tonque. He helped ChiGuy64 on his brake problems. That's my.02 worth.

 

[the Ferret]

Not to high jack the thread or change the subject, by I just read your "bikes owned" at the bottom. I've had several of the same bikes!
65 XLCH, 49 pan, 47 Knuckle, 66 Honda CB160, CL77, Black Bomber 450, CB750 GT380, 550, and Waterbuffalo 750. Not to mention Several RD's, XS650's and Triumph's. Now I know you can bleed those brakes. PM or call if you need assistance.

A lot of great bikes on our lists. I have only bled the front brakes on 1 of them, a 750 nighthawk single disc and I messed that up lol. I really have zero confidence in my mechanical ability. Less than zero if that's possible.At 62 years old, I'm well aware of my limitations and accept them.

They talked about following the procedure step by step in the manual. I know they tilted the smc because they mentioned that. I also know they had the tupperware off because I had them go ahead and put spark plugs it in while it was stripped.

I went for a 50 mile ride tonight and the brakes worked great. I bought the bike new there, and 2 others as well. If I have any more issues with it, they will keep working on it until its right.

I have no doubt you know more about the brakes on this particular model than the mechanics who rarely see one, and if you were in Ohio, or I in California, Id be camped out in your garage watching you (helping as best I can) fix this machine, however being 3000 miles apart prevents that. I do appreciate your offer but I know I'm not wrenching on it. The simple 750 nighthawk disc bleeding job still haunts me.

 

[Igofar]

A lot of great bikes on our lists. I have only bled the front brakes on 1 of them, a 750 nighthawk single disc and I messed that up lol. I really have zero confidence in my mechanical ability. Less than zero if that's possible.At 62 years old, I'm well aware of my limitations and accept them.

They talked about following the procedure step by step in the manual. I know they tilted the smc because they mentioned that. I also know they had the tupperware off because I had them go ahead and put spark plugs it in while it was stripped.

I went for a 50 mile ride tonight and the brakes worked great. I bought the bike new there, and 2 others as well. If I have any more issues with it, they will keep working on it until its right.

I have no doubt you know more about the brakes on this particular model than the mechanics who rarely see one, and if you were in Ohio, or I in California, Id be camped out in your garage watching you (helping as best I can) fix this machine, however being 3000 miles apart prevents that. I do appreciate your offer but I know I'm not wrenching on it. The simple 750 nighthawk disc bleeding job still haunts me.

You sound like a wise man. And like Clint Eastwood said, "A man's gotta know his limitations". After reading your response, I believe they may have done the correct bleed on your bike, I sure hope so.
Because these bikes are so much more fun to ride than they are to work on.
I hope they corrected your brake issues, and that you get many miles of enjoyment out of your ST.
If you ever make it out to California, I'll make room for you in the Garage :amflag:

 

[ChiGuy64]

Hey listen to this man . He speak with straight tonque. He helped ChiGuy64 on his brake problems. That's my.02 worth.

Yes he did. The brakes are working great! And I can now bleed any brake system in a fraction of the time.

 

[dduelin]

Just picked the bike up from the dealership. Service manager said they bled a "big ol" air bubble out of the rear brakes. Said it must have been in the system and worked it's way to where it stopped the rear brakes from working. At any rate brakes feel great now. We will see if it stays that way.Cross your fingers.

I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut the big 'ol bubble was in the SMC. It has to be removed and tilted to get that bubble out and even then it takes a couple of rear master cylinder reservoirs worth of new fluid of get it all out.

 

[the Ferret]

Well, 2 successive rides and brakes still feeling good. So nice when things are working properly.