More questions!

[Odie1]

Hello everyone, back again with questions...

I have read and re-read, then read again many articles on timing belt replacements, and decided it was time. 89K and change on my '96. Everything I have read has been extremely helpful, as always, but I am to a point where I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find addressed. Maybe I should just know better!

First, I have everything removed down to and including the belt cover, but now need to remove the left hand cam shaft pully cover. What is the best method for holding the engine/cam shaft while removing the bolt? Currently, it just starts to spin the engine. when I try and loosen it. Spark plugs have not yet been removed. I have several ideas, but figured since I am not in a hurry to get done, and before I learned how NOT to do it the "hard way", I'd ask the experts.

Second, I am still fuzzy on the workings of the tensioner itself. I know the spring needs to be removed...or at least unhooked, but how about the bolt in the pulley? Is it only the spring that constantly pulls the pulley tight, or does the spring tension it just so you can tighten the bolt? Would someone cover the process of "de-install/reinstall" on the tensioner for me? Would be appreciated.

I have seen when replacing the belt to start at the crank and work counter clock-wise, and John O's tip about counting belt teeth between marks on the cam pulleys BEFORE removing the existing belt, then matching the new one, but any other tips would be welcomed. And, unless it tensioner pulley bearing is really bad - gritty so to speak - I am not sure how you would determine if it is shot, or to leave well enough alone.

Thanks in advance,

Oh FYI - the (25 year) old belt looks perfect, but on most every thread I see here, they all do!

Odie1

 

[dwalby]

the tensioner pulley is fixed in place when you tighten the bolt. The spring is there to provide the initial tension on the belt before you tighten the bolt. Just loosen the bolt and you should be able to pull the tensioner pulley by hand, but I don't know that you'll even need to pull on it anyway. I replaced all the pulleys when I replaced the belt, so I took it out, but I don't think that would be necessary if you're not replacing it.

generally I just put the bike in gear when I need to break a bolt loose against engine rotation and lock the rear wheel using a bungee cord on the brake pedal. For a job like this where you want to avoid rotating the crankshaft once the belt is removed, its probably a good idea to keep everything locked up until you put the new belt on anyway.

 

[Pumper]

1996 Honda ST1100A A OEM Parts, Ron Ayers

Shop our large selection of 1996 Honda ST1100A A OEM Parts, original equipment manufacturer parts and more online or call at 252-758-3084

www.ronayers.com

Where is the belt?
I'll take a stab at what I think might be cam to crank timing belt?
1. I want to find both a timing mark on the pulley and an embossed casting mark on the engine head, or say we look straight on at it, so left cam is on the right if you sat on the bike and that direction. So I want to see some sweep of say either at 10 o'clock or 9 o'clock, 9 being a split line of say the engine case splits in the horizontal, so some would use the split line as the stationary point, or a cast in some area matching the right side cam pulley matching equally on that side.

2. So without book and call it a basket case, I'm going to find the crank's timing mark first. Why? Because you find the crank's cast T-F mark and set it to T for top dead center (TDC), it's going to take two turns. Why? I'm going to set T and look at my pulley marks. Are they now pointed at each other? I sort of now see my second 360° spin will point the cam marks face away from each other now, and there is where I can now see the cast marks or they line up at the head split and so on no shop manual.

3. Do I loophole the tensioner with a few zip-ties and will this have enough slack away from the belt? I can see the tensioner is held back-do not need to remove it per say. I then take a mm size wrench, load my spring side that wants to close the valve, I then turn ever so much not to move the crank off the T mark. While I hold the valve open, the belt slackens again, I pull it off.

4. I slowly release the pulley and let it close. I am now hands free to change to the new belt. At my 3-points, meaning, both crank and the non-moving cam pulley are timed, and those 2 points are ready to be slipped into the 3rd pulley. I have my mm wrench to move back to its timing mark, and as I move the belt onto the pulley, It's going to time a tooth to tooth and I now slide that belt on as I can hand adjust with the wrench, not a socket wrench, so as to tear up a rubber tooth, no way. It has to slide on first try.

5. I then let go of the pulley, watch the timing mark move some. Then I hand tension and see the pulley move back in time-eyeball check in other words before you move the crank and bend a valve on a single 180° spin or less. Snap the zips and see where you're at if we got this far on the belt swap.

As far as Jon-O and mark a belt, tooth? This is HONDA. They do not make you time with magic markers? There are casts/splits to be found. And speaking about being found, on what section is that belt in the ronayers page?

Let's assume no marks:

a. I'm going to remove #1 spark plug. I am going to take a chopstick and send it down the hole, turn the back wheel in top gear so it's easier to spin. Find TDC of the piston and stop there. Lay my mouth over the plug hole and see if I found compression?
b. I'm going to look at the crank and see if there are any marks matching someplace HONDA would say on page so and so on assembly, set crank to #1-C here.
c. Ah crap, no marks. So I know I am at #1C and make my marks at 9'0 mark on left pulley to head, and/or make a circle in a hole on that left pulley. Mark a horizontal and that combo across both pulleys before removing... I can't miss on the retime.
d. If not zip the tensioner, then remove it?

 

[Odie1]

Dwalby,

Thanks for the confirmation - I was thinking the same thing, but wanted to double check. Worked like a charm. Same with the tensioner spring. Surprised at how little tension it puts on. I was expecting something on the order of old time hub brake pads.

Pumper,

Yes - Honda has adequate marks on the crank and cam pulley's, but when messing with something like this, the more data points the better I think.

FWIW - I counted belt teeth between cam pulley marks as well.... 51 teeth on mine too! How about that?

Odie1

 

[Bush]

1996 Honda ST1100A A OEM Parts, Ron Ayers

Shop our large selection of 1996 Honda ST1100A A OEM Parts, original equipment manufacturer parts and more online or call at 252-758-3084

www.ronayers.com

Where is the belt?
I'll take a stab at what I think might be cam to crank timing belt?
1. I want to find both a timing mark on the pulley and an embossed casting mark on the engine head, or say we look straight on at it, so left cam is on the right if you sat on the bike and that direction. So I want to see some sweep of say either at 10 o'clock or 9 o'clock, 9 being a split line of say the engine case splits in the horizontal, so some would use the split line as the stationary point, or a cast in some area matching the right side cam pulley matching equally on that side.

2. So without book and call it a basket case, I'm going to find the crank's timing mark first. Why? Because you find the crank's cast T-F mark and set it to T for top dead center (TDC), it's going to take two turns. Why? I'm going to set T and look at my pulley marks. Are they now pointed at each other? I sort of now see my second 360° spin will point the cam marks face away from each other now, and there is where I can now see the cast marks or they line up at the head split and so on no shop manual.

3. Do I loophole the tensioner with a few zip-ties and will this have enough slack away from the belt? I can see the tensioner is held back-do not need to remove it per say. I then take a mm size wrench, load my spring side that wants to close the valve, I then turn ever so much not to move the crank off the T mark. While I hold the valve open, the belt slackens again, I pull it off.

4. I slowly release the pulley and let it close. I am now hands free to change to the new belt. At my 3-points, meaning, both crank and the non-moving cam pulley are timed, and those 2 points are ready to be slipped into the 3rd pulley. I have my mm wrench to move back to its timing mark, and as I move the belt onto the pulley, It's going to time a tooth to tooth and I now slide that belt on as I can hand adjust with the wrench, not a socket wrench, so as to tear up a rubber tooth, no way. It has to slide on first try.

5. I then let go of the pulley, watch the timing mark move some. Then I hand tension and see the pulley move back in time-eyeball check in other words before you move the crank and bend a valve on a single 180° spin or less. Snap the zips and see where you're at if we got this far on the belt swap.

As far as Jon-O and mark a belt, tooth? This is HONDA. They do not make you time with magic markers? There are casts/splits to be found. And speaking about being found, on what section is that belt in the ronayers page?

Let's assume no marks:

a. I'm going to remove #1 spark plug. I am going to take a chopstick and send it down the hole, turn the back wheel in top gear so it's easier to spin. Find TDC of the piston and stop there. Lay my mouth over the plug hole and see if I found compression?
b. I'm going to look at the crank and see if there are any marks matching someplace HONDA would say on page so and so on assembly, set crank to #1-C here.
c. Ah crap, no marks. So I know I am at #1C and make my marks at 9'0 mark on left pulley to head, and/or make a circle in a hole on that left pulley. Mark a horizontal and that combo across both pulleys before removing... I can't miss on the retime.
d. If not zip the tensioner, then remove it?

This is about as clear as mud! What's your point?

 

[Ron]

If you're still looking for the belt. They're all the same.

2001 Honda ST1100A AC FRONT COVER / TIMING BELT | PartsFish.com

Shop online for OEM FRONT COVER / TIMING BELT parts that fit your 2001 Honda ST1100A AC, search all our OEM Parts or call at 800-964-1882

www.partsfish.com

 

[Capital]

Using Gates T325 belt will save you a lot of $€£, compared to OEM belt price (which is stupid). And it worked for many in the forum (including myself).

 

[Pumper]

Thanks. Makes sense now. Ron Ayers is missing head right and belt page. Parts [Ron] are cheaper so far out of some others.

 

[Odie1]

Thanks all - have a Gates T325 that should be showing up any day now....

Odie1

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Ron Ayers is missing head right and belt page.

Ron Ayers has the same diagram/parts list, you just didn't select it. Their listed price is cheaper.

1996 Honda ST1100A A FRONT COVER | Ron Ayers

Shop online for OEM FRONT COVER parts that fit your 1996 Honda ST1100A A, search all our OEM Parts or call at 252-758-3084

www.ronayers.com

 

[dwalby]

Using Gates T325 belt will save you a lot of $€£, compared to OEM belt price (which is stupid). And it worked for many in the forum (including myself).

not only does it work, its essentially identical to the Honda belt, and its quite possible Honda has their belts manufactured by Gates to begin with.

 

[Smudgemo]

This is what I noted when I did one on my '97 project I sold: the water pump, idler and tensioner bearings all felt like new, and my belt (like most everyone else's) didn't look much different than the new one. I disconnected the spring to make it easier to move the tensioner out of the way during the installation part, and my first shot ended up with both cams about one tooth off. It's a bit of a chore to get the new belt to fit into the teeth of the three wheels, so stay patient. It's also nice to have a Clymer manual as a supplement to the Honda service manual, but ultimately I followed Honda's to the letter.

 

[Pumper]

Not sure, but timing belt is the same for first year 1991 ST1100, to last year 2003 ST1100P, and the ST13 is phased in that same year is the parts changing thru the years.
Called NAPA and I think he searched who knows how far out of state, but none at 109.00US. But when I see P and 101.00US at a Honda dealer... P for police fleet, you know they are not about to drop the ball on that section. OEM it is for me.