"Neutral" issue while shifting gears

[ST_SVK]

Hi all,

I want to ask about one behavior of my bike, which occurs after crash which I had.

How transmissions works now:

N - engine is running on neutral and green N is glowing on dash, than it is smooth to put it into 1st gear and drive. When I am changing from 1st do 2nd, I always (or like 90%) have to go through Neutral - simply move gear lever 2 times to get into 2nd (and sometimes help it with my foot until clutch isn´t fully released, or 2nd can drop back into Neutral by itself). After that, all gear changes are smooth (up and down). When I am shifting down from 2nd to 1st, it is going well (no neutral or double pressing), but if bike is standing, it is sometimes hard to hit neutral into position. During riding small speed It´s easy to hit neutral (so gears have to move slowly).

This behavior starts after first rides after crash - from that time I ride +/- 2000kms and I used to shift like this, sometimes I have feeling, that when bike is at right operating temperature it is working better, but I don´t prove this to myself yet, maybe it is because of few hours of riding I used to it and it "runs smoother".

So - is it possible, that during crash (shift lever was not hit) there can be some small damage (something slightly bend) inside transmission?

 

[Upt' North]

Hi,
I don't think it's inside the transmission, but of course it could be.
I'd put a small amount of money on it being the external gear linkage. Take the lever and associated rods off, from memory one bolt and a circlip, wash out the rose joints with brake cleaner and then lube with some normal grease. No need to be anal about the type of grease, it just needs something that won't wash out.
No need to slacken the adjusters.
As the engine warms up the shifting should get easier.
Good luck.
Upt.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Its a good idea to start by making sure that none of the shifter linkage joints are binding and that there are no bent pieces in the linkage.
Start with a good inspection, cleaning and lubricating. Check out the below for the how-to.
ST1100 - Shift Linkage Tune-up

 

[ST_SVK]

Thanx guys, I made disassembly, cleaning and lubed this linkage and all its parts (as shown in Tune-up thread). But, as you mentioned, id doesn´t matter, something isn´t slightly bended. I´ll check.

 

[ST1100Y]

When I am changing from 1st do 2nd, I always (or like 90%) have to go through Neutral - simply move gear lever 2 times to get into 2nd (and sometimes help it with my foot until clutch isn´t fully released, or 2nd can drop back into Neutral by itself).

Shifter set too high (in relation to footpeg)?
You can adjust the "length" of the linkage (hence height of sifter) by the threaded rod (two counter nuts)

...if bike is standing, it is sometimes hard to hit neutral into position. During riding small speed It´s easy to hit neutral (so gears have to move slowly).

Clutch not fully separating... likely hydraulic or oil issue... especially when it's like "...works fine with cool engine, issue worsens when engine is really hot like in urban traffic..."

 

[SMSW]

What was the damage to the bike in the crash? Did you hit something (front impact), rear end skid out and drop the bike on smooth pavement, any other kind of dropping the bike? Which side went down?

What repairs were done after the crash? Did you change the engine oil immediately after the crash (before you noticed the change in shifting)? How does the clutch feel - is there any difference in engagement point as you let out the clutch from before to after the accident?

 

[Al st1100]

looking at one of your old water pump post it looks as PO didn't do much maintenance. Clutch master cylinders get gummed up and orfices cloged. I would look carefully at that and the slave before tearing the bullet proof trans apart.

 

[myst1100]

I’m confused about your statement about having to shift twice to go from first to second? If I’m in first, while driving, I shift up once to hit second. It’s a bit of a clunk if I’m at lower rpm’s but if I was to shift up twice it would put me in third gear

 

[ST1100Y]

... I shift up once to hit second. It’s a bit of a clunk if I’m at lower rpm’s but if I was to shift up twice it would put me in third gear

You could minimize that by withholding briefly in neutral, then quickly into 2nd...
(1st to 2nd normally works nicely in low RPM, not if you wring 1st into red line though...)

 

[ST_SVK]

What was the damage to the bike in the crash? Did you hit something (front impact), rear end skid out and drop the bike on smooth pavement, any other kind of dropping the bike? Which side went down?

What repairs were done after the crash? Did you change the engine oil immediately after the crash (before you noticed the change in shifting)? How does the clutch feel - is there any difference in engagement point as you let out the clutch from before to after the accident?

It is all at bikes thread, but shortly - car in the way, I don´t want to hit it directly on front, so few (like 3 metres) I dropped the bike on the left side and bike hit the car under drivers door with mainly front wheel and brake disc - result - bend brake disc, moved geometry of front end, left backview mirror + some plastic parts on left side of the bike.

I did not changed oil (it was fresh, like 500kms driven on it). When I put bike back on wheels I let it stay till time we did all paperwork with police and I normally started it then (no fluids were leaking). It was like 200 metres from my garage, so I slowly drive bike back to garage and repaired it (also everything in bikes thread).

@ST1100Y : about oil issue I have discussion with one Honda rider, he told me to change brand of engine oil to improve also clutch quality, so maybe he is right

@Al st1100: you are 100% right about PO, I refurbished all related to clutch and brakes before riding, clutch master and slave are brand new + new fluid. All OEM Honda parts.

@myst1100: this is how it should work, that´s why I am asking, if this can be transmissions related issue, but I understand now from all of replies here, that linkage is first place to look (adjust high, check if not bended etc.)

 

[ST_SVK]

Shifter set too high (in relation to footpeg)?
You can adjust the "length" of the linkage (hence height of sifter) by the threaded rod (two counter nuts)

Clutch not fully separating... likely hydraulic or oil issue... especially when it's like "...works fine with cool engine, issue worsens when engine is really hot like in urban traffic..."

Hmm, high of shifter - should it be too sensitive, if I changed boots for "lighter ones", that is missing that few milimetres of boot? Because I started using different boots after repair (summer beggins ). I was not thinking this way.

Also, if bike is started on central stand, rear wheel is slowly turning when in neutral, but I think, this is OK behavior...

 

[Larry Fine]

Also, if bike is started on central stand, rear wheel is slowly turning when in neutral, but I think, this is OK behavior...

It is normal.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I’m confused about your statement about having to shift twice to go from first to second? If I’m in first, while driving, I shift up once to hit second. It’s a bit of a clunk if I’m at lower rpm’s but if I was to shift up twice it would put me in third gear

He means that he shifts from first to neutral and stops, then shifts from neutral to second in a second motion as opposed to going from first straight through to second.

 

[ST_SVK]

Update to this issue: friend of mine told me, that he had similar problem on his CBR600 back in a days and different brand of engine oil helped him - Bel Ray. So I changed Motul for Bel Ray (plus engine flush) and after first 500kms after change I can tell, that shifting is much better than before.

 

[ST Gui]

shifting is much better than before.

That's great! But it doesn't address why this behavior changed after your crash. There still may be an issue that was mitigated by your oil change. I have no idea what happened. But it's not a stretch tho thing that if the bike was in gear and clutch not engaged something might have got misaligned/shaken loose/who knows. Of course it could be sheer (oil joke) coincidence that your shifting problem surfaced around the time of your crash.

A bent disc? Yikes!