Hi Im a newbie, hope this is the right place for this topic? My Pan 1300 had been outside all winter and had a flat batt. After charging up, it started fine for perhaps 40 seconds (auto choked) then very quickly seemed to be running only on two cylinders. I turned it off, tried to restart - ran very rough for a few seconds, engine now spins happily on the starter motor but not firing at all!! Any ideas?
Pan (A9) 1300 started, then stopped after winter lay up!!
- Thread starter Wurlitzer
- Start date
Sounds like no fuel is entering the engine. I'm not familiar enough with 1300s to guess why.
Thanks Larry, yes, I wonder if the the fuel is a bit stale and possibly some water has crept in over the winter!! Tank is low (2 bars) Maybe mix in some fresh fuel and give another go? Can you remove one of the spark plugs and lay against engine to check for sparks while cranking on this engine?
If I suspected water in the fuel, I'd pull the cover on the lower tank and look. Depending on the age of your bike, your fuel filter might be clogged and rust might have started chewing away at metal pieces. While you have the tank open you can also test the fuel pump. Don't forget you will need a new gasket for the cover.... You sound like you already know, but every book on auto repairs suggests filling the tank all the way up before storing the vehicle (unless for a long long time, in which case, empty it).
Thanks SMSW, I'll try new fuel maybe with a bit of system cleaner added and then if no good I'll take off lower tank cover as you say for further investigations. Thing is I've run it up now and then over the winter for 20 mins or so to working temp no problems! Last ran it perhaps mid December so it hasn't been that long ago!! How easy is the fuel system to flush out?
I'd be starting with the basics, check the plugs are firing, pull the top tank off since you're down at 2 bars, and check for mice nests in the fuel injector wiring. Re your question on the plugs, I've personally never tried it on the 1300.
If it's been sat for about 10 weeks or so, water in the fuel is unlikely. Bad 5 way Tee, perhaps if it quickly came off auto-choke then ran on 2 cylinders.
Pretty much regardless of the cause of your problems, have you tried to read the codes from the ECU yet?
If it's been sat for about 10 weeks or so, water in the fuel is unlikely. Bad 5 way Tee, perhaps if it quickly came off auto-choke then ran on 2 cylinders.
Pretty much regardless of the cause of your problems, have you tried to read the codes from the ECU yet?
if its cold out the engine will run much richer. Running it for a bit and shutting it off may have flooded the engine and the old gas doesn't help. Have you tried opening the throttle to start it? If that starts it run it till it gets warm. fuel can separate and moisture will settle at the bottom of the gas tank and get sucked up along with fuel. just my thoughts .
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Sounds like a good candidate for RODENT DAMAGE.
Lift the tank, remove the air box and inspect the wiring closely while looking for nesting material. There are many many many threads here on the subject
Lift the tank, remove the air box and inspect the wiring closely while looking for nesting material. There are many many many threads here on the subject
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Ive got a few coolant leaks, I'm borrowing a small pipe camera from one of the guys at our shop this week end, I've got the lower airbox off and hopefully be able to see the vee area with it, Ive only got an open carport and rats and mice are a problem,
I'm going to buy a short small radius tipped camera just to check some of the concealed areas more frequently, I often think of the old poster with the caption - your problem is obvious - with perhaps a caveat; with these bikes, nobody can see anything, and then when you remove the seats, the fairings, the tank, the airbox top, the bottom airbox, the rad... nobody can see anything.
I'm going to buy a short small radius tipped camera just to check some of the concealed areas more frequently, I often think of the old poster with the caption - your problem is obvious - with perhaps a caveat; with these bikes, nobody can see anything, and then when you remove the seats, the fairings, the tank, the airbox top, the bottom airbox, the rad... nobody can see anything.
Terminator2
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Do you hear fuel pump energizing turning key to on position? If yes, Fuel pressure test with an adapter.....55psi?
The filler neck water drain tube was blocked backing up rain water sending it into the main tank. After pumping out the fuel in the reserve tank ( I jumped the pump relay and used the pump to empty the tank) I replenish with fresh fuel and it started with an open throttle. I let it warm up to temp but it is very reluctant to idle now so I suspect water is still in the very bottom of the tank and needs opening up and cleaning out properly!! I'll replace the extremely expensive fuel filter while I'm at it.
If you can hold a smooth idle with the throttle I don't think water is the problem.
last year one of the vacuum lines came off the throttle body and it would run rough and stall I would have to hold throttle open until bike was warm.
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If you have had water in there at the bottom of the tank and it has been sitting with just 2 bars, you've got air in there as well - perfect conditions for rust. When you do the fuel filter, check the condition of the pump.
Make sure you read the posts on replacement parts and hoses. Some are known to have tubes that should not be kept immersed in fuel or in E10 fuel.
It would be prudent to replace that short, thick hose and clamps which join the upper and lower tanks. Make sure you get the correct part for your A9. The design changed with the A8 and later models.
The water drain hole takes water from the left hand side of the filler cap cover ( so it drains when the bike is on the side stand) and feeds it through a metal pipe on the inside of the metal fuel tank. The pipe emerges at the underside of the rear of the tank. There are three tubes that emerge there, which can be seen when you lift the tank. They all have rubber tubes clamped to them. There is a join in the rubber tube at the front left of the seat frame, accessible when the side panel is removed.
Two of the rubber tubes drain behind the sump on the left hand side if the bike - near the gear lever - so they can also get blocked from road muck kicked up by the front tyre.
Having read one post on here about the metal tube rusting through and allowing water to seep in and fuel to seep out, I now make the drain hole part of my regular service schedule. The filler cap doesn't seal the drain hole so when your bike is outside in all weathers water will easily get past the gaps in the aluminium fuel cap, and it needs to flow away. Otherwise when you open the cap, it allows the water into your fuel. It sinks to the bottom of the lower tank, where the fuel pump sucks it up.
So I blast the tubes with compressed air from the pipe at the rear of the tank, refit the rubber tube, clamp it off and fill the metal tube with ACF50 - a penetrative protective 'oil' - and give it time to soak into any rust that might be forming inside, and then drain it out. ACF50 is expensive, so I collect it and reuse it for brushing on other parts that are exposed. But I guess that any oil is better than doing nothing. ACF 50 penetrates well though.
With all of the sand and dust from the Sahara that has been raining on us in recent weeks, These drain holes stand a good chance of becoming clogged with silt
Make sure you read the posts on replacement parts and hoses. Some are known to have tubes that should not be kept immersed in fuel or in E10 fuel.
It would be prudent to replace that short, thick hose and clamps which join the upper and lower tanks. Make sure you get the correct part for your A9. The design changed with the A8 and later models.
The water drain hole takes water from the left hand side of the filler cap cover ( so it drains when the bike is on the side stand) and feeds it through a metal pipe on the inside of the metal fuel tank. The pipe emerges at the underside of the rear of the tank. There are three tubes that emerge there, which can be seen when you lift the tank. They all have rubber tubes clamped to them. There is a join in the rubber tube at the front left of the seat frame, accessible when the side panel is removed.
Two of the rubber tubes drain behind the sump on the left hand side if the bike - near the gear lever - so they can also get blocked from road muck kicked up by the front tyre.
Having read one post on here about the metal tube rusting through and allowing water to seep in and fuel to seep out, I now make the drain hole part of my regular service schedule. The filler cap doesn't seal the drain hole so when your bike is outside in all weathers water will easily get past the gaps in the aluminium fuel cap, and it needs to flow away. Otherwise when you open the cap, it allows the water into your fuel. It sinks to the bottom of the lower tank, where the fuel pump sucks it up.
So I blast the tubes with compressed air from the pipe at the rear of the tank, refit the rubber tube, clamp it off and fill the metal tube with ACF50 - a penetrative protective 'oil' - and give it time to soak into any rust that might be forming inside, and then drain it out. ACF50 is expensive, so I collect it and reuse it for brushing on other parts that are exposed. But I guess that any oil is better than doing nothing. ACF 50 penetrates well though.
With all of the sand and dust from the Sahara that has been raining on us in recent weeks, These drain holes stand a good chance of becoming clogged with silt
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- #9021
Check for ECU failure codes. There is a wiki link above in this page where the procedure can be found if you don’t have a manual. The codes will help you determine what to do or test next.
My problem turned out to be ( as mentioned in jfheath post above) rusted internal drain off pipe. This let water into the fuel of course, eventually to such a degree it stopped the engine. After extensive investigation I found the hole in the drain off pipe near the top - could just get a small inspection mirror under it to see it. I tried to insert a plastic pipe through the metal one - effectively relining iy but failed. The bends were too tight to get it trough!! I've sealed off the drain off pipe at the top and bottom so now really ned a new secondhand tank ( see want ads in this forum!) All very annoying - big consequences from a tiny hole!!
Bike now running after replacing clutch slave cylinder - yes, without removing the engine! But no turns out the reason for clutch failure was.... sized clutch plates, yes a wet clutch bathed in oil!! . Great, Fixed those and then engine wouldn't start due to water in the fuel as mentioned above!! Honda FFS !!
Bike now running after replacing clutch slave cylinder - yes, without removing the engine! But no turns out the reason for clutch failure was.... sized clutch plates, yes a wet clutch bathed in oil!! . Great, Fixed those and then engine wouldn't start due to water in the fuel as mentioned above!! Honda FFS !!