ST carb kit related

[Billy C]

Hi y'all. I am Billy C and I don't own an ST. I am an avid Honda V4 guy though. I own an 83 VF1100C (V65 Magna) and the wife rides a 95 VF750C (also a Magna). I am here at the prompting of a guy named Michael who is an ST owner and member. My purpose here is to develop carb kits for the ST 1100. I've been doing kits and rebuilds for the early V4's now for about 10 years on eBay and the various V4 forums. Mike saw my stuff and talked me into working up a kit for the ST. I stay really busy with early V4 carbs but just happened to have a rack of 97 ST1100 carbs gathering dust and am gonna see what I can do. Your bikes may have the engine installed sideways and too much plastic covering it up but we are still brethren and hopefully I can do you guys a better kit than is available elsewhere at a better price.
I may be dancing too close to a sales pitch here and I am a newb so set me straight if I have crossed a line. Based on what Michael is telling me there is not much out there in way of thorough kits and someone should step up and do one. That is what my purpose here is for. I will be asking for some help as I am not familiar with all the ins/outs of the ST.
I am tearing down a 97 ST1100 rack now with lots of pics and measuring everything twice and documenting everything. I'll know more by the weekend if this is a practical project. Assuming it works out, and I've seen nothing so far that is a showstopper, kits will come with all seals, main and slow jets, float valve assy's and all stainless allen head hardware. Like my 1st Gen kit on eBay and with some less expensive variants for minor rebuilds - http://www.ebay.com/itm/251101525824?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 .
So, my 1st plea for help. Does anyone have a site where I can download the parts fiche? Not having racks for all the years it will help nail down specifics to make kits for all year ST1100's. I am open to any suggestions that don't involve stuffing foreign objects in any private body cavities.
Thanks,
Billy C

 

[Mark]

If it is copyrighted this site doesn't allow links to it.

But, you do know you can look at all the parts at Ron Ayers and Bikebandit right?

 

[LarryC]

Seems what most complaints I've heard about the carbs stems from the diaphragms getting holed because of age and ethanol or the boots dry rotting from heat. Are you talking a diaphragm with resistance? That would be a very nice thing. Many (MOST IMHO) here probably wouldn't be tearing into their carbs to tweak or upgrade them without a specific complaint. Hell, just getting to them is a major chore. Personally, I've done some major carb work in the past and I view their (ST1100) disassembly/rebuilding as akin to dental work...

 

[Billy C]

If it is copyrighted this site doesn't allow links to it.

But, you do know you can look at all the parts at Ron Ayers and Bikebandit right?

afaik, copyrights expire after x number of years. I assume this is why Honda has not gone after all the parts fiches and manuals online. I'll keep looking, it is out there somewhere. I get it that y'all have to protect your forum though.

I use RonAyers for all my OEM parts since ZanottiMotor went tits up. My problem with the online fiches is they are delete part #s when the parts are discontinued, they leave out several sections at the top which deal with carb codes, frame and engine serials. A an old original fiche on your hdd is just so much more user friendly.

I am done with my teardown and spec sheet on the 97 rack (VD series BJAA). It always amazes me how well Honda sticks with the old parts for so many years. A lot of the parts on this rack are fully interchangeable with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd 3rd Gen V4 carbs. I don't know how far you guys go into these on a rebuild but judging from this single example I find most of the seals are dry rotted. If you are not doing a complete seal replacement already, you will be within a few years. Their age is catching up to them. You'll likely be seeing fuel leaks around the fuel tubes at some point. Common on the early V4 largely due to the tee inlet fuel tube which swivels when the fuel hose is bumped and this causes a dry seal to break. The ST got rid of the fuel tee and went to a metal permanent inlet. Good on ya Honda!

I found these carbs to be not too difficult compared to the 1st/2nd Gen carbs and way easier than the 3rd Gen ans later VFR carbs.

So, I have spec'ed everything and putting together kits will be an easy task. I have one seal to source and a few screws to order. The seal is for the T-joint (index 4) that sits at the front and rear of the rack. I'm guessing it is for emissions vapor recovery. Someone here no doubt has that answer. I am a noob to these ST carbs after all. I'll get the kits together in a couple weeks and list some on eBay and see how they do. If interest is there I always offer discounted prices to forum members. Again, I'm not here to sell you anything. I make my money on eBay and it helps keep the lights on, kids fed and supports my own bike habit. So enough about that.

I do take a lot of pride in my work and have a very good reputation on eBay and the early V4 forums. Google up Billy C and you'll find me. Been doing V4 carbs only for over 10 years now. I'd like to share some pics of my work. Here are some links to some 82 V45 Magna carbs. Not too shabby for 30 yr old carbs eh? Yeah, my arm hurts from patting my own back.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/billyc/51A_BOB_1_day_exchange_complete_(2).jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/billyc/51A_BOB_1_day_exchange_complete_(2).jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/billyc/51A_BOB_1_day_exchange_complete_(4).jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/billyc/51A_BOB_1_day_exchange_complete_(5).jpg

This what a carb rebuild starts out as (post teardown and cleaned) -

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/billyc/exploded_carbs_s3_001.jpg

 

[Billy C]

Seems what most complaints I've heard about the carbs stems from the diaphragms getting holed because of age and ethanol or the boots dry rotting from heat. Are you talking a diaphragm with resistance? That would be a very nice thing.

Sorry, nope. Vacuum slide/diaphragms are a Honda only item for the early V4 and afaik the same applies to the ST. There is a guy starting to manufacture just the diaphragms now but I have no idea if he gotten around to the ST yet. Doubtful. JBM Industries is his company. Take a Google and maybe he has them. I have not checked yet but they look exactly like the 94 - 03 3rd Gen Magna diaphragms. I am a bit surprised y'all are having problems with holed diaphragms. Ripping near the nipple on the o.d.? 95+ % of the bad ones I see are bad right there. The bleed valve located in the carb body at the nipple will dump chemicals on the diaphragm. Be cautions with fuel additives and NEVER...EVER spray anything into the intake funnels. I see the occasional rack where someone sprays ether in the funnels thinking it's their 68 Chevy 4 bbl and it melts the diaphragms into a puddle of rubber.

Personally, I've done some major carb work in the past and I view their (ST1100) disassembly/rebuilding as akin to dental work...

I hear ya. But, a lot of the old V4 guys manage to do it. It takes attention to detail and we have sorted out the gotchas on the forums. A digital camera is a must on a thorough teardown.

 

[Billy C]

I know I'm posting a lot but bear with me. I'm in sponge mode right now and I have questions. I see the pilot (air/fuel) screws use the same 'D' shaped head as the 3rd Gen. What I ran into is the 3rd Gen tool is too short. Y'all got a Honda part # or aftermarket source for the correct tool? Or am I missing something?

Bed time. Nite all.

 

[Mark]

John O has the information in his photo gallery of tools.

 

[RONST1300]

That would be a very nice thing. Many (MOST IMHO) here probably wouldn't be tearing into their carbs to tweak or upgrade them without a specific complaint. Hell, just getting to them is a major chore.

Tearing into the fairing is a bit of a chore for maintenance, but we save a bunch of time on cleanups after a ride. Anyone who has detailed a chrome bike, knows what I mean.
Ron

 

[The Cheese]

Good luck with your venture. I will say that I don't see there being a huge market for kits. Sure, some people will buy them, I just don’t think many will. Most times when a ST has carb issues, its from sitting with gas. Then its just removing, cleaning, and replacing. No parts necessary. If they do need parts its diaphragms. I do see a market to reproduce those. That's what you should be looking into. I have a spare set of em and would be willing to buy another if they were affordable. Others would too!


As for a "one stop shop" for a download-able parts fiche, I haven’t found one. Please let me know if you do. Closest thing is Here. Good luck.

 

[Billy C]

Good luck with your venture. I will say that I don't see there being a huge market for kits. Sure, some people will buy them, I just don’t think many will. ... If they do need parts its diaphragms. I do see a market to reproduce those. That's what you should be looking into. I have a spare set of em and would be willing to buy another if they were affordable. .


As for a "one stop shop" for a download-able parts fiche, I haven’t found one. Please let me know if you do. .

If the kit tanks, no biggie. An evenings work and ordering in a few screws and seals is all I have in it.

While doing the teardown I noticed the cam wheel for the throttle cables was damaged. Very common problem in shipping the 3rd Gen, later VFR and add in the ST carbs. Bad design with that fragile pot metal wheel hanging off the side unprotected. One hit against the side of the box and it is history. Point being I have to decide whether I want to try and track down a #1 carb body or part out the rack and if parting is my decision, I'll have 4 good slide/diaphragms for sale. I'll likely throw them on eBay if that happens. I'd rather do a polished rebuild on them as part of the carb kit ad but I'm not doing the work if it is a junk rack because of the throttle cable wheel.

If I run across a fiche I'll post or share the link off forum. The online fiche sucks. Example, the '97 rack has 3 different combos of main jets and jet needles with zero explanation for which carb codes they apply to. Grrr.

Thanks for the input.

 

[vinny]

I, for one, think there is a market for the kits.... there is always going to be someone who would rather replace some parts and gaskets during a teardown rather than revisiting later. The 1100 carbs are fairly reliable, but as many bikes there are world wide.... and this forum being global, there's your market.

 

[mznyc]

I am here at the prompting of a guy named Michael who is an ST owner and member.

That would be me.
What I know about carbs wouldnt fill a thimble.You need the correct mixture of fuel and air,right?Thats about what I know.
Ive read about a hundred or so posts related to poor running carbs and am learning from the ground up here as I come from FI'd bikes.Most of the poor running bikes seem related to clogged jets and poor sync adjustments.I bought the Mike Nixon book,which is excellent.http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/booknook.html#12 Mike is also an enthusiast like Billy who has been working on Hondas for decades.He says that if your going to go to the trouble of removing the carbs,might as well replace everything wearable once your in there as most of the labor is just access and removing the carbs.Once out ,not that much work to separate,clean,and replace wearable items.My bike went 83K miles without a problem but sat stored for several seasons and now running poorly at idle.Probably a clogged low speed jet and clearing it may solve my problem,but if not I'll have to do it all over again.My thought is to do the rebuild,and it should go another 100k without a problem if well cared for.Worth the $100 plus in parts?,I think so.I really want to reduce the chance of putting everything back together and find another problem.
Thanks Billy ,I wish I could give you more technical info but as you can see Im a newb at this too.
Thanks again for your efforts,hope this works out for all of us as Billy says our rides our starting to show their age(not unlike the owners) some going on 20+ years and if they arent showing signs of failure now,they may be in the next several years.

 

[mznyc]

I, for one, think there is a market for the kits.... there is always going to be someone who would rather replace some parts and gaskets during a teardown rather than revisiting later. The 1100 carbs are fairly reliable, but as many bikes there are world wide.... and this forum being global, there's your market.

16,797 ,...members that is.Albeit not all 1100 owners or active but if a quarter of them were,...4199.25 and say 1 out of ten has or has had carb problems we're talkin 419 potential buyers,cut that down to 1/4+% and ya got about 100 estimated members that could use them,...I think a rather low, if not realistic numbers for a market FWIW

 

[davdmad]

Billy, you gonna start doing rebuilds on st1100 carbs like you offer on the v65s? I was planning to contact you as I know your reputation from the v4vbs site. Good to hear you are venturing into the ST's , especially since I just bought one that needs carb work. let me know man and good luck.