The Science Of Being Seen...

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
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No suggestion that its use is of no value was made.
The suggestion is that over reliance on hi-viz in the belief that one is safe because of its use is a false security blanket.
The implication you gave, or at least that I read, is those that use high vis are misguided and reinforced by your reply "its use is a false security blanket."

I believe that you and I probably agree that a rider that considers hi vis as a way to mitigate risk is also cognizant of other risk mitigation tools, both strategic and tactical, and employs them. If they only use the one tool of hi vis then I agree with you, they are misguided.

One should use all the strategic and tactical tools at hand to reduce risk and not rely solely on bright colors or technology to prevent accidents.
 

ST Gui

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I'd say that one should not rely on any one or combination of any add-ons to prevent accidents. Obviously no matter how skilled a rider may be he or she cannot guarantee that innate and learned skills along with appropriate technology will keep them accident and injury free.

But that shouldn't deter anyone from putting those tools in their toolbox and using as many as possible in constant awareness of their environment.

It's disappointing though to see someone's mention of an add-on such as lights or reflective marking (or the previously mentioned hi-viz kit met with the always predictable "it's no substitute for advanced ridings skills and awareness like mine!" etc. (Yes that last bit is their subtext not their written word but it's there nonetheless).

I've seen no mentions here or anywhere of someone suggesting their addition of a tech farkle will now keep them safer than a St. Columbanus medal or whatever. "Hey I've got a hi-viz helmet – now I can close my eyes whenever approaching intersections/turn/stoplights! YAY ME!" Yet there's no shortage of people wanting to school them on something that person already knew.

(And for some unknown reason I associate that type of "school teacher" to also make "this radar detector saved my bacon!" posts.)m

Wearing hi-vis kit doesn't mean a rider won't get hit. Does that mean he/she shouldn't invest? Of course not. It's a choice. Same with additional rear lighting. No guarantees. EMS vehicles displaying full lighting have been struck anyway. How many of them have spared the expense and foregone those lights. Yet some would say - "Don't bother. Nothing replaces SA."

I agree with half of that. SA is the best single defense but that doesn't mean it can't be help some. But we do pick and chose what tools are put in the box and what get used. Some here have inflatable "crash vests" or jackets and at least one member has an Air Bag GoldWing. But they're in a tiny minority.

And I bet at the time of their purchases not one of them thought "Wow! Now I don't have to worry about trying to prevent a crash. I'll survive anything!"
 

Andrew Shadow

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The implication you gave, or at least that I read, is those that use high vis are misguided and reinforced by your reply "its use is a false security blanket."
That was not my intended meaning.
I can see how specific words chosen from a complete statement can certainly give that wrong impression however.
I do not think that my statements, when taken in their entirety, do convey that message.

Had I stated "those that use high vis are misguided", that would definitely give the impression that I do not support its use.
My statement of;
for the consideration of anyone who is under the misguided impression that hi-viz clothing is a miracle product that solves the invisibility problem for them.
was intended to highlight that the notion that hi-viz clothing alone can solve the invisibility problem is a misguided belief, not that the use of hi-viz clothing is misguided.
The words preceding and following, when included, hopefully convey that message.

Similarly, "its use is a false security blanket." does give the impression that using it is foolhardy.
My statement of;
over reliance on hi-viz in the belief that one is safe because of its use is a false security blanket.
was intended to point out that over reliance on hi-viz clothing for one's safety is false security. It is the over reliance on this one safety aspect that is a false security, not that the use of hi-viz clothing is a false security. I don't believe that this is any different from the inherent danger of over reliance on any one of the other crash avoidance methods that have been mentioned.

I believe that you and I probably agree that a rider that considers hi vis as a way to mitigate risk is also cognizant of other risk mitigation tools, both strategic and tactical, and employs them.
I am not thouroughly convinced about that corelation with many riders whom I observe. I have often had the impression that they feel that they are invincible based on how they simply ride through traffic without any apparent defensive strategy being employed. It is as if they think that their hi-viz jacket is a defensive shield protecting them, which is partly why I wrote what I wrote.

If they only use the one tool of hi vis then I agree with you, they are misguided.

One should use all the strategic and tactical tools at hand to reduce risk and not rely solely on bright colors or technology to prevent accidents.
Complete agreement.
 

ToddC

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Wow....! I think you all have beat this horse and we all can find our own safety measures. Just my two cents.
T

:spank1::nuts:
 

ColinW1981

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I just got my popcorn and I am really digging this thread. :bigpop: It's better than a "what Moly should I use?" thread...:rofl1: Let's see, Hi Vis haters, check! More lights please haters, check! Modulating headlight haters, check!
I tend to side with ToddC, live and let live. Use what you feel works best for your situation and then pray the car doesn't have your name on it...;)
 

Dale_I

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Wow....! I think you all have beat this horse and...
But... but... I've got this dead horse and I don't know what else to do with it!
:beatdeadhorse:

Outside of hi-viz and lights....
I ride with some guys that wear white helmets and you would be surprised at how well they show up during riding. An orb shape not found much in nature and the same with the color. It stands out as well as being cooler in the hot summer months.
 
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But... but... I've got this dead horse and I don't know what else to do with it!

Outside of hi-viz and lights....
I ride with some guys that wear white helmets and you would be surprised at how well they show up during riding. An orb shape not found much in nature and the same with the color. It stands out as well as being cooler in the hot summer months.
If you want to decide for yourself... find a freeway overpass with a side walk. Walk out there and look at the oncoming commute traffic for a while. It becomes obvious pretty quickly.
 
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