There isn't a Phillips screw anywhere on your bike. They are JIS. You've got to buy one or more JIS drivers.
5 Way T Vacuum Hoses
- Thread starter Reginald
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My dad showed me how to use his impact driver after I stripped one of those crosspoint screws on my 1970 Honda Z50. However, in the limited space under the tank I get the ST's snorkel base screws out without swinging a hammer.
- Joined
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- 12/04 ST 1300s
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- 000420
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- 5901
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- 5901
True that the JIS screw drivers would make a huge difference in the fit of the driver VS the screw, but for the price of those drivers, I can replace lots of screws!
Besides, I don't mess too many of them up!
OP
OP
Reginald
cyclepoke
Replaced vacuum hoses on 5 way T which fixed rough idle and slight cough at around 2,000 to 2,500 RPM's. To my mind I didn't get much gunk out of the T or old hoses to have caused the rough idle, but it sure cured it. Ran smoothly, nice! Replaced vacuum hoses with 3.5 mm silicon hoses rated at 500 F. Cost $20 for 10 Ft. Ran so smooth I feel no need to sync the throttle bodies.
PS: easy peasy to remove 5 way T hoses while throttle bodies are on. I used a fine bladed screw driver to push and long needle nose pliers to pull on the hoses. They slid right off without binding.
I took the air box off with a JIS screw driver with just a little force. Nice screw driver! I got it in the mail just the day before. It was shipped from Japan and was an improved version with groves on the blades. Man, that thing gripped, had to pull the screws off the screw driver!
PS: easy peasy to remove 5 way T hoses while throttle bodies are on. I used a fine bladed screw driver to push and long needle nose pliers to pull on the hoses. They slid right off without binding.
I took the air box off with a JIS screw driver with just a little force. Nice screw driver! I got it in the mail just the day before. It was shipped from Japan and was an improved version with groves on the blades. Man, that thing gripped, had to pull the screws off the screw driver!
Chapman tools now makes JIS bits for their screwdriver sets for a couple bucks each. If you don’t have a Chapman set you probably need one. Super high quality screwdriver/ bit set, made in the USA, available from chapmanmfg.com and Amazon.
You do not need to remove the throttle bodies to replace the vacuum lines or clean the tee.
The TB's do not need to be removed to clean or replace the vacuum lines
I do NOT have any "crazy funky robotic pliers, or really good surgeon skills....or practice Yoga....but I do replace these hoses and and clean these 5 way tee's on almost a monthly basis
All that is needed is a Number two JIS driver, and a good quality pair of needle nose pliers or stainless steel sponge forceps to do the job.
Oh yeah, and some pipe cleaners.
And this boys and girls is why real mechanics DO NOT loan tools to people...
Really, vice grips?
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| JIS Cross-Head Screwdriver Set (JDVA-16632)
This is a 3 piece set of JIS screwdrivers. These cross-head JIS screwdrivers are made by Vessel Tools and are designed to be used on JIS screws commonly found on Japanese motorcycles. This is the Megadora series. Megadora models are equipped with the most advanced triple-molded handle for comfort. The corners of the hexagonal cross-section are molded with elastomer for a soft fit and high torque transmission. These very high quality screwdrivers have magnetic tips made of hardened high-grade tool steel. Each set includes a P1, P2 and P3 size screwdriver. A-16632 The Phillips® versus JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) Phenomenon One of the most recognized types of screwdrivers in the US is the traditional Phillips®screwdriver. It’s probably the most commonly used driver in your toolbox for fastening cross-point screws. Do you experience “cam-outs” and damage to screws when using a Phillips®screwdriver on Japanese brand products (motorcycles, ATV’s, automobiles, etc.)? If so, then it may be a “JIS” (Japanese Industrial Standard) screw. A JIS and a Phillips® screw may look the same to the human eye, but they have completely different profiles and it's important to know the difference. Henry Phillips invented and patented the Phillips® design in 1936. The Phillips® design was a great solution for the automobile production lines since it was designed to “cam-out” after a certain torque was reached to prevent over-tightening of the screw. Another advantage over the use of flat head screws was that the Phillips® self-centering design allowed operators to engage the tip of the driver into the screw head very quickly and easily. Japanese engineers developed their own cross-point design similar to that of the Phillips®. The Japanese cross-point drivers also have the self-centering and quick tool and screw engagement, however the “JIS” (Japanese Industrial Standard) design allowed torque and over-tightening to be controlled by the operator and not at the head of the screw. This key difference is why Phillips screwdrivers cannot properly engage "JIS” (Japanese Industrial Standard) screws. It’s very hard to distinguish the difference between a Phillips® versus a JIS screw without magnification. Some JIS screws can be easily identified by a single dot or dimple on the head of the screw. However, it could be difficult to identify one from the other if the screw doesn’t have a marking.
You can see the difference between the two cross-point designs in the above diagram. The Phillips® and the Japanese JIS profiles may look the same, but they are indeed significantly different when you look at them under close magnification. An overall rule of thumb is that Japanese cross-point screwdrivers are recommended in order to help prevent cam-outs and screw damage when working on Japanese brand products. NOTE: *************************************************************** This three piece set can be purchased from Cyclemax.com I would suggest for those interested in purchasing JIS drivers, to stick with the Vessel brand, as several folks who purchased some on-line ended up with cheap plastic handled knock off ones that didn't work as well. |
sirbike
Site Supporter
I read about this JIS screwdriver here. Thought about buying one.
A couple days later I hired a Japanese fellow as a bicycle mechanic. Bicycle shops I’ve been to have all their own tools for mechanics to use. Masato walks in with one tool in his pocket, a Vessel JIS screwdriver, you are hired. So I could try his screwdriver. I immediately ordered JIS screwdrivers for every station. Huge difference for the easier for derailleur and linear pull brakes adjustments.
We don’t have to push as hard on those bolts to turn them. It is well spent money for home shop as week as pro.
By chance another mechanic had the impact JIS like pictured above we traded now I have the impact too.
A couple days later I hired a Japanese fellow as a bicycle mechanic. Bicycle shops I’ve been to have all their own tools for mechanics to use. Masato walks in with one tool in his pocket, a Vessel JIS screwdriver, you are hired. So I could try his screwdriver. I immediately ordered JIS screwdrivers for every station. Huge difference for the easier for derailleur and linear pull brakes adjustments.
We don’t have to push as hard on those bolts to turn them. It is well spent money for home shop as week as pro.
By chance another mechanic had the impact JIS like pictured above we traded now I have the impact too.
CYYJ
Michael
I dunno how many screws you could buy for $34, the price of the nice set of JIS screwdrivers that Larry illustrated in his post #30 above. My experience has been that even the smallest Honda fastener costs about $1.50.
The biggest benefit, though, to having a set of JIS drivers is how easy it is to disassemble and reassemble parts. It's true, you can take JIS fasteners out with a Phillips, but it's just not the same - the Phillips cams out, you can't easily apply lots of torque to remove the fastener, and likewise you can't always be certain you have applied the right amount of torque when you are re-installing the fastener.
Be kind to yourself and indulge in a luxury: Buy a set of the Vessel JIS drivers and try them out. You will find that the difference is like buying a real cheap pair of work boots vs. buying a pair of perfectly fitted Red Wing boots, or staying at a cheap & nasty motel vs. staying at a really nice place. Honest.
Michael
Hi Larry,
Are there steps posted with picture to get to the 5 way tee. Thanks.
I love mine!
I've got Impact in sizes #2 and #3, a red handled one with a hex nut built into the shaft, a couple complete sets of #1,2,3, etc. and even their standard slot drivers.
I've also got stubbies, and several bits for my driver tools if needed.
A #2 bit inserted into a 1/4 inch drive impact socket, will remove ANY screw that's stuck! However, I've only had to do that ONE time when a member used RED locktite on a TB snorkel screw
There are several good videos about the tools.
MP makes a T handle driver and gives you 3 JIS bits for about $15 bucks....True that the JIS screw drivers would make a huge difference in the fit of the driver VS the screw, but for the price of those drivers, I can replace lots of screws!
Besides, I don't mess too many of them up!
Or if your really thrifty, they sell a pair of bits for under $5 bucks.
Not getting off the subject....but does the cheap and nasty motel come with a female companion?
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
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- 5901
Looking at Amazon, I found a Vessel JIS Impact Screwdriver for about $40! Too bad my budget won't allow any nonessential purchases at this time!
Stop looking on AmazonLooking at Amazon, I found a Vessel JIS Impact Screwdriver for about $40! Too bad my budget won't allow any nonessential purchases at this time!
I paid half of that for a silver impact vessel. Try McMaster Carr or a tool supply company.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
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- 9,510
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- Cedar City, Utah
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- STOC #
- 5901
Stop looking on Amazon
I paid half of that for a silver impact vessel. Try McMaster Carr or a tool supply company.
Looks like about the same price!
Your impact driver probably came with a Phillips tip - which isn't a good match for most of the screws on the ST. I don't know if you can buy a JIS tip, but that should eliminate your problem with stripping screws with the impact driver...