HOA Advice

Daboo

Daboo

Joined
Apr 10, 2018
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774
Location
Lynnwood
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F900 XR
We're in the market for a "new" or previously loved home. We've never been in an HOA before. Many of the homes we'll be looking at though, will have an HOA. Any advice you have will be appreciated. What's the good and the bad? What should we watch out for?

Chris
 
The good? Nothing.

The bad? Literally everything in the bylaws.

Just read through the bylaws and make sure you're OK with everything, and if you're not then pass. They can put a lein on your house for violations, so it's not like you can just ignore it. I'll never submit to a bunch of power hungry suburban soccer moms again, I had a terrible experience with mine.
 
Yeah...I know what you're saying. In our case, it'll be hard to find a home in the urban blight of Puget Sound that doesn't have an HOA. Unless I want to move into the country.

We moved into our home in 1990. It's down a one-car width street that services three houses. Ours is the middle one. The family above us was an older woman living with her daughter who was around 30 yrs old. The couple below us was an older fellow and his Japanese wife. She used to hold classes in Japanese gardening. It was a really nice area where everyone did their part to make it attractive.

Then the old fellow died and his wife moved out. The new owner does very little to keep up his house or property. It's not that he or his sons can't do it...they just don't care. The woman and her daughter moved out and sold it to a family. The father/husband was great at first. Then the business he owned went bankrupt during the Obama years. Cash for junkers did him in...his business was in rebuilding engines. So he moved all his equipment into his backyard. There was like 3 or 4 junk sheds in the backyard with equipment. 8 engine blocks under the back deck. It looked like a junk yard.

Then he died and a woman bought it for a rental property. It was looking like things would get better...but no. The tenant mows the grass only occasionally and does nothing at all to maintain the place. I'd guess my property value went down $70K just because prospective buyers would have to drive by the junk yard to get to us.

So we went from a good situation to a pretty poor situation. That's why I'm not adverse to an HOA, but also not gung-ho to the idea. Besides, an HOA costs $$$ and I'm cheap.

Chris
 
I’m in an HOA development (in my region of SC, most developments are HOA run)- mine isn’t bad actually and they haven’t been too intrusive when I want to do upgrades on my property.

I would say the upside of an HOA is that they don’t allow the properties to look like hell such such as having cars under a tarp on jackstands leaking oil onto the driveway or a whole bunch of garbage in the front of the house (or allow properties where the landscaping has not been done and the grass is 2 feet high and the shrubbery is all overgrown). Sometimes they can be a little heavy-handed depending on the HOA, but as I said, the one I’m in is actually not bad.

I agree I’m not a fan of paying extra fees, but the one I am in right now is $105 per month and that covers the pools that we have in the development as well as my gym membership (we have a gym on site at the amenity center, which I use frequently). It also covers grass cutting for what is the common areas (but I am responsible for taking care of my own yard).

You will get a lot of opinions about the good and bad of them. It really depends on the individual HOA. we have been living in the same development for almost 10 years at this time. My wife and I were going to check out a specific home in a local development. However, we were told by the realtor that motorcycles were not allowed (you could own a motorcycle, but you were not allowed to run the engine and could push the motorcycle to the front gate before leaving the development). We pulled into the development and once I heard this, I didn’t even bother looking at the house because I had no interest in it if I was not able to operate my motorcycles on the streets of the development and would have to push the bike to the gate in order to operate it. It was an absolutely ridiculous requirement.
 
READ everything before you decide!
Some of the HOA will not let you park ANY vehicle in the driveway, and the garage is only for your cars not storage. Some limit the time you are allowed to keep your garage door open, such as 5 minutes, only to pull in and out of the garage etc.
Some in our area limit what kind of pets your allowed to have, and banned certain breeds.
No commercial vehicles, or and cars/trucks with advertising logo's on them.
What type of porch lights you can use, Holliday decorations, political signs, etc.
 
The 'president' of the HOA knocking on your door to give you 'friendly' advice or advise of some heinous bin violation. Someone I know put up a TV antenna and the HOAians said take it down. He advised them they couldn't legally make him. He didn't make any friends. Where he's at he gets all our OTA channels. HOAs are the stuff of a Pete Seeger song.

Yes it depends on the HOA. I see them as the scorpion on the back of a 'gator. Some scorpions are nicer than others I suppose.
 
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As said, not all are bad. Funny story. I was working in an apartment turned condo and got to talking with what would be called the super in NYC. He was the resident maintenance guy. Seems the HOA required unanimous votes for large capital expenditures. For years the roof leaked and the people on the lower floors (4 stories high) balked. "We don't see any leaks". Finally, when the top floor's ceilings came down (after stains and small drips that drove them nuts for years). Everyone agreed the situation was serious and they voted unanimously to put on a new roof. A couple of years later, the first floor folks freaked out - We have Termites!. Upper floors vetoed the pest control folks...."We don't see any termites in our walls....."
 
Lived in 2 HOA neighborhoods. Both were good. In both cases the HOA protected the value of your property but otherwise were pretty unobtrusive. Never had an issue. I read the bylaws before buying to make sure there wasn't anything in there I couldn't live with. If you don't like how something is being done get involved join the board.
 
My understanding is that even if you currently own a detached property, you could in some areas be compelled to join if a majority of owners in your neighborhood should organize and essentially vote in favor
The municipal bylaws cover most of the issues with respect to buildings and fences being kept in a reasonable state of repair there are also bylaws regarding vehicles and conditions
Working and interacting on a daily basis with multi-unit residents, owners, strata council members and property managers you see issues from all sides; those buildings have to have rules and lots of them to maintain any peaceful enjoyment for the residents and keep the buildings in a good state of repair
But in many instances the strata bylaws go further infringing upon peoples freedom in attempting to maintain appearances; a couple examples; personalized items attached to the outer door of a suite or exposure of inner drapes will result in a $200 fine
Another is smoking within 6m of the property; which caused me to politely introduce myself to one of my new neighbors hanging around under my trees; yes, you've satisfied the requirement of walking across the lane to light up and avoided a fine, but here's your problem [is it me? why do you even have to explain these things...]
Routinely observe building A smokers butting out on the sidewalk in front of building B and vise [no pun intended] versa
I live in an old shack in an area which has undergone substantial development almost all around me and I cringe thinking about the possibility of any of that [HOA] happening to me; way too many people with too much time on their hands want to be the deputy
If you do become saddled with joining one, like me you probably already know the person on your street that's gonna run for sheriff, and she'll be coming for you [me] :run1:
 
Chris09 said:
My understanding is that even if you currently own a detached property, you could in some areas be compelled to join if a majority of owners in your neighborhood should organize and essentially vote in favor
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Wow, I really hope that is not true. There is no way in hell that I would want to live in a HOA controlled neighbourhood where I would have to read a multi-paged document to find out if I can do an oil change on my car in my own garage, or wash my car in the driveway. My privately owned detached property would continue on as before and I would never sign any papers acknowledging their existence. I currently live in a very nice neighbourhood where everyone takes pride in their property. There's a variety of homes and different styles and colours as opposed to what HOA controlled communities seem to like where every house looks the same and have the same limited colour pallet.
 
You really won't know how the HOA is run until you get there. Ideally, you read the rules, then go and see if they are being enforced. But buyers often don't get that much time, even forced to sign away their right to review in order to close on time. If you can easily call or contact their POC, then that's a good sign. If it takes days to reply, not so much.

Speaking as the President of our neighborhood HOA, I selectively enforce bylaws, some are just dumb (garages open for more than a few minutes) but some are important (derelict vehicles, trash, unkempt property, tall grass/weeds). The point is to maintain the value of all the properties in the whole neighborhood. Having no HOA then puts your property value at risk from your neighbors. And you can't really know them until you're there either. I'm happy to answer more questions if you want if terms aren't clear to you. Good luck!
 
HOA's are very similar to governments. Some municipalities are run very well and some are not. It comes down to the people who live there. Some HOA's are benign and operate in a way that is beneficial to the residents, and some are onerous. How do you pick one? IDK. As an example, I live in an upscale suburb of Cleveland. When we bought our home here it was considered a sleepy outer ring suburb with large lots (1 acre and up), no sidewalks or street lights and a lot of older people. In recent years, with the influx of younger families, the need for sidewalks has become a major issue. I think that while sidewalks are a nice amenity, they change the nature of the neighborhood. Someone running for city council speaks of the need to change with the growth of neighboring communities. What exactly does he want? How does one plan ahead for something like this?

In Ohio, HOA's are regulated by the state, but from my pov, the key is 'planned communities'. I was not and am not aware of laws by which a majority of people in a neigborhood could vote to change said community to a HOA governed one. (That is either simply my ignorance or the lack of laws allowing such.)
ipropertymanagement.com

Ohio HOA Laws

A summary of Ohio state statutes and regulations on the powers, formation and management of homeowner associations (HOAs).
ipropertymanagement.com ipropertymanagement.com

edit. I like how @jdmccright is working as the president of his HOA (based on his post #13). But what if Little Miss Muffet gets elected when he retires and she hates seeing the junk we all collect in our garages? Our city actually has a weed law - if the grass grows over 6" the city has the right to notify you, and then mow it and bill you. It has never been enforced, to my knowledge, but it is on the books.
 
HOA's for detached homes not a thing here, but I've seen a few FB videos of HOA Karen's who have let the power go to their head and act like complete Nazis.

Once you short list a place I'd go to a few homes on your street, knock on the door and ask the homeowner for their perspective on how the HOA is and how they enforce rules. If you get a good vibe then you would probably be OK. Also, I'd read the HOA rules and expectations to ensure I knew exactly what I was getting into, in particular re the garage and vehicle in use vs being stored and / or worked on in the garage.

Oddly enough, the place you're at now seemed to be great until new people moved in. If you had an HOA there, it is likely the properties would not have been allowed to degrade and pull everyone's place down. There are definitely pros and cons to HOA's.

Parallel here is a condo association. My mom and MIL lived in units in the same condo building for 5 - 10 years. Same people on the board year by year, Bossy, self important etc.... but the 200 unit building was well run and in good shape with a proper reserve. My MIL. in her mid nineties at the time attended all the condo board meetings and commented that the same people were there complaining about the same things meeting after meeting. Her perspective was that once you make a decision to live in a condo you're bound by the rules and if you disagree with them you should not a bought a place there or you should move and stop wasting everyone's time.............. Smart lady.

As with most things it comes down to the people involved.
 
Erdoc48 said:
You will get a lot of opinions about the good and bad of them. It really depends on the individual HOA.
Click to expand...

Edit - ReStored states much of what what I wrote below.

Like most things, you will hear a lot of bad but not much good because of human nature, not because there is so much bad and so little good, but rather, unhappy people tend to be more vocal than happy people. Read the documents, talk to other owners, examine the financials and the Board meeting minutes (you have a right to see those), do the due diligence that a large investment requires. If you think you are being pressured to sign before you do this, walk away.

A good HOA would have prevented the situation that has you contemplating moving.
Donk said:
If you don't like how something is being done get involved join the board.
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This!!!!!
If you are in an HOA and don't like what is happening, get involved. So many people just sit on the porch and bark rather than getting out in the street and getting muddy.

HOA's are as good, or bad, as allowed by the owners. Most bad ones have evolved because people were too lazy to get involved and let others do the work.
I live in an HOA. We had a Board that gradually let things get a bit out of hand. The owners got together and put forward a slate of people for election to the Board, got a whoesale change with people who actually knew how to run things, and it is much better now. Not perfect, but it never will be as things change over time and the ability to react quickly to changing situations can be hampered by laws and regulations that are in place at a higher level (eg. municipality/state/province).

To reiterate; The key is people. Bad ones will result in a bad HOA, good ones result in a place that is managed to your benefit.
 
Donk said:
If you don't like how something is being done get involved join the board.
Click to expand...
Exactly how I got involved. Some Board members were bad-mouthing me and spreading rumors, so I countered by getting elected. That shut them up real quick, and since I've been Prez (forever, ugh) I don't tolerate any of that at meetings.

Yes, having the same people volunteering can be good and bad. I always encourage involvement when I can, but most residents don't care enough or are too busy to help when they complain about something. We are all volunteers, not paid. We also have lives and jobs and responsibilities. So, it'll get done, just not always on your time schedule.

Used to be you could go and just knock on people's doors and ask them about the neighborhood. Not anymore. People are a lot more reclusive and protective. If they see you on their Ring camera and don't know you, they aren't answering or will use the speaker. I encourage you to try, but don't be surprised by the lack of response. Again, good luck!
 
Another thing to consider if you are considering buying in an HOA area is that the rules can change; I find it almost impossible to imagine not being able to have a motorcycle but I'm sure someone will call BS on my example of exposing inner drapes.
The municipalities I'm sure favor and support formation of HOAs as it eases the work load of bylaw enforcement proceedures; bylaw hates getting called and hates even worse having to interact with neighbor to neighbor disputes and all that inconvenient stuff like actually doing their job
What's more is what's coming to light with those that occupy various council positions; case in point is Delta that has, as all the municipalities a _OP [acrynom not sure] which amounts to their plan going forward to get in line with increased density at specific locations The yearly plan is proposed [no snot blown, it was hard but... ] to residents whereupon they are invited to express any objections; such as having a six story wood frame built 30' from your house which completely blocks the sun out for the rest of your natural life, and provides third party free surveillance from fifteen new neighbors
In Delta, this consultation resulted in a %70 percent disapproval rating of the overall [call it a yearly development] plan and shortly afterward was voted for, unanimously with no changes.
We're also learning to what extent those that occupy positions on city council and levels of government right up to our federal housing minister are essentially real estate speculators through freedom of information so on we know that around 45% have vested interest in these plans
A bit of extraneous perhaps but point is the HOA captures eveyone else who isn't part of a strata and essentially, punishable through fines, a concept that will continue to be pedaled by various levels to maintain and increase the effect of the various facades that prop up perceived property values such as garden looking common areas, law firm looking lobbys, idiotic water features and things called art around the entranceway and various other amenities and areas where you can enjoy - except you can't let your dog's feet come in contact with the ground, oh, you still can? hmmm.... time for another HOA meeting see you there :wine2:
 
First home we bought had no HOA well all had 1/2 acre or larger lots . Neighbor on one side sold his place to Jim . Jim was a pack rat , soon his place looked like a junkyard . No pride in ownership. One time he brought old creosote bridge timbers home . Jim built a combination carport and elevated deck with the timbers . Sold that place , and bought in a neighborhood with a strong HOA that enforced the rules no more Jims.
 
Some people are just not cut out for HOA/condo living. They should accept that, and not move into one. We have people living here that complain that if it is raining and they go outside they get wet and expect the condo association to do something about it ....an exaggeration obviously, but not as big as you would think.

Like most things, there is always two sides but some only see one. Spending time on a condo board or on any of the various committees needed for one to run smoothly, is quite a window on "humanity".

Changing HOA/condo bylaws is not easy. Here it takes 75% of owners to approve but only 25% to turn down a change. If there is a bylaw that no longer applies to the current times, it is relatively easy to get changed but if it is a bylaw that only a few object to.....well, that is a different story. If a level of government, above the HOA/condo level, changes laws and regulations that impact the HOA/condo, there is not much recourse and that is not the fault of the HOA/condo association. Anyone can be impacted by those changes, even if you live in the country with no neighbours.

What it boils down to is the fact that there is good and bad with any type of property ownership and you have to weigh what is important to you, due the diligence, and move forward knowing that you are probably not going to be 100% happy all the time.
 
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