Front wheel bearings - goof

Ok guys, go easy on me. I had a brain fart moment and could've caused a very dangerous; actually, did cause a very dangerous situation.

I'll swallow my pride here and tell the story, but it is here for you to learn from my mistake so that you don't do this or if you experience it, maybe this is your problem. My pride is not worth keeping this to myself. It may save you from harm or worse if you find the same.

First take a look at this diagram, and specifically note item 6 and item 7, keep them in mind:

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_WHEEL/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/45/Year/2004/ModelID/7497/Model/ST1300A/GroupID/329515/Group/FRONT_WHEEL LINK NO LONGER WORKS

EDIT - NEW LINK SEE PAGE 1-F2 http://www.pkoch.de/images/st1300-2003-4.pdf


They are not interchangeable and noticeably different. I didn't switch them. If you do, your wheel will not roll after you put your bike back together. I did however put #7 on backwards. If the spacer (#7 is not flush with the edge of the wheel, it is on WRONG. It will be flush (held there by the seal) until it is torqued down. Be sure to note it after you torque it. If you are still in doubt, keep an eye on it for a few weeks. If it migrates inward, it is installed wrong). The longer side on #7 goes inside to touch the bearing.

When I removed the axle, #7 fell to the ground. I wasn't sure which way it went back on but thought, logically, the greasy side was the side that went into the seal. I was WRONG, very wrong. I torqued the axle back down and all seemed well. Now, if anyone has seen or followed my post about the high speed wobble, that wobble would come in around 100 to 110. It started right after I changed my front tire. I'd never had it up to those speeds with the old tire because it had no life on it when I got the bike. I was perplexed and consider it being the new tire (a few posts about the PR2 causing wobble on the internet), caused by the dampener (adjusted it, seemed to help), preload adjustment (adjusted it, seemed to helped), and the car tire I put on. The wobble was due to the wheel drifting left and then right ever so slightly on the axle. On one trip it wouldn't move and the bike would not wobble at all. On another (more of this experience than not) the bike would wobble, sometimes violently.

One week ago Thursday 2/9/12, STave and I headed out to get the N. Tx Tag and do lunch. We got as far as Hwy 171 and Hwy 377 (East of Granbury). On this day the wobble was ever so present and STave notice the dirty air behind an 18-wheeler wobbling me pretty good. I started to hear a loud squeal. I wear hearing aids so don't hear squeaks like normal folks; this was loud enough that I heard it and was alarmed; realizing that if I heard it, it had to be bad. So I motioned for STave to pull along side and listen. With his earplugs in, he heard it. We pulled into a NAPA parking lot and put it on the center stand. Turning the wheel, the spacer/shim (#7) would spin with the axle. Causing it to spin against the bottom of the axle tube next to the pinch bolts and squeal. We took the front wheel off. The rubber seal was all but gone on the #7 side (left side). At that point I thought the bearing was completely gone because I couldn't see it. It was covered in melted seal. I called Mellow and he looked up the part number for me (THANK YOU Joe!). That NAPA didn't have one but the one in Granbury did. STave headed out and got it, returning shortly (THANK YOU Dave!). We thought we'd do a quick repair and I'd limp it home without the seal. As he was riding I started contemplating riding it without the seal. I didn't have the warm and fuzzy feeling about it so I called my best friend, who lived on that side of town, and he brought his truck. He, STave, and I loaded it up. I ordered the seals and waited until they came in last Tuesday. I changed the thermostat on Saturday and put the new spring loaded clamps on that I'd purchased. I parked the bike for the week and this morning had the time to change the seals and the one bearing. It was grinding badly. The new bearing didn't feel too good to me as well, so I went to O'Reilly's Auto Parts and got 2 new ones. They rotated very smooth, even smoother than the NAPA one and half the price ($11.99 each part number MasterPro PT 205FF). Both of the old ones were very tough to get out, but I removed them, replaced them and have all back together. The wheel spins freely. I've not test ridden it yet but it spins smoothly but am 99% sure this was the wobble culprit.

I feel like a complete bonehead and am humbled.

I hope this helps any others that may be experiencing this or has questions regarding the bearing(s), seal(s), spacer(s), etc.

JoeP

Thanks Joe, sometimes it's the little things that get us and it feels embarrassing but if it helps someone avoid a bad situation then it's a good thing. Glad you got it all taken care of.

I guess thats a good reason for me to continue using a Sharpe on the parts when I remove them ( small direction arrow and l/r ) .

This comes from the first time I put them in opposite ! Your not alone.

Easy mistake JoeP. Thanks for telling us about it.

Seems to me that the brakes (rotors-pads-calipers) likely contributed to holding the wheel in position as the seal went away....it probably wore the left pads a bit more as the wheel tried to work it's way left on the axle. I'd also guess that the brake action was a bit sloppy...applying the brakes would slightly pull the wheel back to the right before both L & R pads of each caliper gripped the disks.

BakerBoy said:

it probably wore the left pads a bit more

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That was my thought too, but there is no "noticeable" difference in the wear from left to right. Brakes will be changed all around over the next month or so when I pull the car tire off to check and lube the splines.

JoeP,

No need to thank me, I was happy to help.

I'm just glad we didn't drop the bike going up that ramp while loading it into the truck!

I'm glad you got it all worked out. Thanks for the info on O'Reilly having the bearings. How did you end up getting the bearings out? Did you use your friend's (I forgot his name already) tool?

We'll have to try that ride again sometime. I have a pretty full schedule this week but maybe the week after...weather should be better and the days are getting longer!

I understand the reversed orientation of the LH spacer would rub on the seal and probably destroy it in short order then start spinning on the axle. I don't understand how any side to side play could develop though. You did not leave any parts out and the width of the spacers, bearings, and wheel hub is the same regardless of the orientation of #7. Unless you reverse the LH and RH spacers the wheel remains centered with no play. What am I missing?

Wasn't the axle flush with the outside of the left fork leg?

dduelin said:

I don't understand how any side to side play could develop though.

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Since the short side of the spacer did not reach the inner tube that fits between the bearings, there was a gap. Once the seal burned up, the spacer was able to move in 1/8 to 1/4 inch more; thus, allowing the wheel side to side movement.

STave said:

How did you end up getting the bearings out? Did you use your friend's (I forgot his name already) tool?

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Anthony had an inner gear puller but it won't work. The bearings are pressed in against the tube. Item 9.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_WHEEL/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/45/Year/2004/ModelID/7497/Model/ST1300A/GroupID/329515/Group/FRONT_WHEEL

I have a press but used the attachments off of it to gently tap the right side bearing inward which moved the left bearing outward. Once I got some space between the two, I put a punch through from the left and drove the right one out. I pulled the tube out and used the punch to remove the right side. One note here is that the center tube is very thin aluminum and is fragile. Simply it helps align the bearings with the axle but seems to serve little other purpose besides making bearing removal a pain in the hiney.

The assembly width is made up of: spacer, bearing, spacer tube, bearing, spacer. The seals do not contribute to width of the assembly, they ride on the circumference of the spacers (if correct). The spacers 6 & 7 bear against their respective bearing inner race - not the spacer tube. So this is a fixed distance regardless of orientation #7. In order for 1/8 to 1/4" play to develop the fork legs could not have been parallel when assembled and the axle nut torqued. I believe your explanation but I don't understand how the fork could have been assembled like that. The fork legs would have been splayed outward at the bottom making it difficult to insert the axle through all the parts and out the other side.

All I can say is that it went together quite easily albeit incorrectly. Once the seal went, the spacer (short side, wrong side in) moved into (you are correct) the edge, or circumference, of the bearing leaving a gap and enough room for the wheel to migrate slightly. It was so slight I never noticed it. I even put the bike on the center stand and checked the steering head bearings without noticing any play in the wheel while I contemplated the cause(s) of the wobble I was experienced.

Sorry I can't explain it where it is more understandable. All I can say is it was incorrect and affected the performance of the steering.

STave said:

We'll have to try that ride again sometime. I have a pretty full schedule this week but maybe the week after...weather should be better and the days are getting longer!

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I'll be in Seattle all week so maybe next Saturday or Sunday if you're up for it Dave.

dduelin said:

The assembly width is made up of: spacer, bearing, spacer tube, bearing, spacer. The seals do not contribute to width of the assembly, they ride on the circumference of the spacers (if correct). The spacers 6 & 7 bear against their respective bearing inner race - not the spacer tube. So this is a fixed distance regardless of orientation #7. In order for 1/8 to 1/4" play to develop the fork legs could not have been parallel when assembled and the axle nut torqued. I believe your explanation but I don't understand how the fork could have been assembled like that. The fork legs would have been splayed outward at the bottom making it difficult to insert the axle through all the parts and out the other side.

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Dave,

I have only taken my front wheel off once to change my tire and the bearings were fine so I didn't remove anything more than the spacers. Therefore, I am not as familiar with the mechanics of the front wheel as you are so I may have things wrong in my head but I was there and I know what I saw.

With the bike on its centerstand, the spacer turned with the wheel (spinning on the axle) and was rubbing against the inside of the fork, thereby making the squeaking noise we heard. While we were in the parking lot at the Napa, we tightened the axle nut to the approximate torque value using my calibrated forearm -- since neither of us had a torque wrench handy. With the nut torqued down, the spacer no longer moved....neither did the wheel. The front wheel was locked in place, held motionless by friction from the spacer. So the spacer was definitely not resting against the inner race as it should have been because the front wheel would not move. So, however much free play there was in the front wheel, it was at least enough to allow the spacer to freewheel when it should have been snugged up against the bearing race. I don't how much free play there was but it was enough.

As for the fork legs being splayed outward, I'm not an engineer but I don't think 1/8" or 1/4" of extra play between the fork legs would account for very much distortion to the fork legs' shape. Keep in mind that when one removes the front axle to remove the front wheel, the tension on the fork legs is relaxed enough to allow the wheel (with spacer) to slide out without very much friction. There must be, albeit very little, displacement of the fork legs to allow that. I think there might be enough flex in the fork legs to allow for the 1/4" gap without causing any significant stiction. Again, I'm not an engineer, but keep in mind that 1/4" gap between the fork legs would mean that the end of each leg would be displaced half of that distance (1/8"). Considering that the fork legs are around 30" long, I don't think that 1/8" of deflection over the course of 30" would account for very much distortion in the shape of the fork leg. The angular change in shape, in terms of degrees of rotation, would have to be very small. Even if I take into account that the fork legs are locked into place by the bottom triple clamp, which is 20" from the axle, I don't think there would be very much distortion in shape. I forgot my high school trigonometry many years ago, do we have any mathematicians out there that could run the numbers? Imagine a triangle with one long leg of 20" (the distance from the bottom triple clamp to the axle), a short leg of 1/8" (half the distance of 1/4" free play, since the other half would be a deflection of the other fork leg), and then the third leg of 20" (the distance of the deflected fork leg back to the bottom triple clamp). Now, solve for the angle between the two long legs of the triangle. Like I said, I forgot any trigonometry I knew years ago, but it would have to be a very small angle -- most likely, less than 1 degree. If the free play of the front wheel wheel were only 1/8" to begin with, instead of 1/4", the angle would be even smaller.

So, like I said before, I'm not an engineer. So I may not be describing this very well and my theory may be all wet. But I do know that there was enough free play in the front axle to allow both the front wheel and spacer to turn freely. When the front axle nut was torqued down, the turning of both stopped.

Whatever the cause - all's well that ends well.

How many miles on this 2004?

I'm thinking the raised lip on the collar must contact the fork itself but without doing it I'm just guessing.

I need to put a new front tire on the ST in a couple weeks. I think I'll take a couple pics of the common problem of switching the left/right spacers as well as the wheels in stalled w/spacers inverted just to show the incorrect view along with the correct view to help out. I'll post those up once I get them. I wonder why Honda didn't stamp a L or R on the exposed part of the collars, I may do that myself, makes sense to me given how easy it is to make this mistake, we see dealers doing that a few times.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I'll be due for a front tire swap this summer and I know this is something that could have happened to me. Thank you again for the information!

dduelin said:

The assembly width is made up of: spacer, bearing, spacer tube, bearing, spacer. The seals do not contribute to width of the assembly, they ride on the circumference of the spacers (if correct). The spacers 6 & 7 bear against their respective bearing inner race - not the spacer tube. So this is a fixed distance regardless of orientation #7. In order for 1/8 to 1/4" play to develop the fork legs could not have been parallel when assembled and the axle nut torqued.

Click to expand...

I just changed my front tire tonight so I took a look at the spacers. What I found confirmed my suspicions: the inner and outer parts of the spacer are of two different diameters. The outer part of the spacer has a larger outer diameter than the inner portion. Therefore, when the spacer was reversed, the extra width forced the spacer to make contact with the seal rather than bearing race. So when Joe torqued the axle, the spacer was pressing on the seal. As he puts some miles on, the pressure from the spacer on the seal eventually wore out the seal leaving a gap for the spacer to now wander back and forth across (basically the width of the seal). I would bet dollars to doughnuts that lateral movement was what was causing Joe's wobble.

Very good. That explains the melted seal and the mechanism behind the spinning spacer.

If the triple digit weave comes back don't be surprised, it doesn't originate in the front wheel although Joe's problem might make it much worse.

STave said:

I just changed my front tire tonight so I took a look at the spacers. What I found confirmed my suspicions: the inner and outer parts of the spacer are of two different diameters. The outer part of the spacer has a larger outer diameter than the inner portion. Therefore, when the spacer was reversed, the extra width forced the spacer to make contact with the seal rather than bearing race. So when Joe torqued the axle, the spacer was pressing on the seal. As he puts some miles on, the pressure from the spacer on the seal eventually wore out the seal leaving a gap for the spacer to now wander back and forth across (basically the width of the seal). I would bet dollars to doughnuts that lateral movement was what was causing Joe's wobble.

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Thanks Dave!

Just an FYI for those that need pictures, I was changing out my front tire today so shot this pic, as you can see, the part of the collar that goes into the wheel is a smaller diameter. Oddly, on the left-side thinner collar both sides are the same diameter.

Don't feel too bad, I did the exact same thing a few years back. I just didn't tell anyone about it.