Is This The Dreaded SMC Failure?

Gunz · Feb 27, 2012

I had all the classic symptoms, brakes dragging, hot brake smell, rear wheel wouldn't free wheel and I couldn't compress the SMC whatsoever. Though I've read the symptoms, I've never read or seen the actual failed components.

Think I can get the dealer to replace the left caliper? I made a really nice power point, just not sure if I should send it to someone. FWIW, I cleaned it up best I could and reassembled everything. Everything seems good, but I haven't put her on the road yet...

Whaddaya think??? It's fifty miles to my dealer.

(BTW, that drain channel they installed in the '08 and later didn't help.)

Igofar · Feb 27, 2012

Gunz said:
I had all the classic symptoms, brakes dragging, hot brake smell, rear wheel wouldn't free wheel and I couldn't compress the SMC whatsoever. Though I've read the symptoms, I've never read or seen the actual failed components.

Think I can get the dealer to replace the left caliper? I made a really nice power point, just not sure if I should send it to someone. FWIW, I cleaned it up best I could and reassembled everything. Everything seems good, but I haven't put her on the road yet...

Whaddaya think??? It's fifty miles to my dealer.

(BTW, that drain channel they installed in the '08 and later didn't help.)

Thats the worst one I've seen yet

4:
I would not try to operate that bike due to the risk of it locking up completely on ya.
I ordered my SMC through Ronayers.com.
Had it in about 5 days.
All the dealerships said they were on a nation wide backorder.
Ronayers always come through with the goods.
The rebuild kit was about $35-40 bucks, the entire assembly was a little over $100.
I'd opt for the complete unit, due to scarring you probably have inside the tube.
Thanks for posting the pictures.

Anna'sDad · Feb 27, 2012

That's just about how the SMC looked from my ST when I pulled it apart back in June of 2010. The corrosion (due the poor performance of the piston rod boot) had caused the piston to bind in the cylinder. The binding was more than the piston return spring could overcome, thus the piston stroke became, over time, effectively shorter and ineffective.

The day I discovered the SMC failure I was not prepared (with replacement parts) to rebuild it, however with the parts laid out on a shop towel I really had no alternative. I cleaned the metal bits with a brass wire brush, and scotch-brite, including the cylinder bore, the rubber bits cleaned up with soap and water. I reassembled with a generous amount of brake fluid, and packed the piston rod boot with silicone grease, and bled the SMC from the rear brake master cylinder.

All of this was almost 38,000 miles ago, it's now time for new brake pads, as well as full bleed and replenishment of brake fluid. Go ahead and drive it.

MidLife · Feb 28, 2012

Great documentation you have for your NHTSA complaint.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

The Wingers managed to get their fix. If we start systematically reporting this serious safety issue, we might get ours.

Igofar · Feb 28, 2012

Anna'sDad said:
That's just about how the SMC looked from my ST when I pulled it apart back in June of 2010. The corrosion (due the poor performance of the piston rod boot) had caused the piston to bind in the cylinder. The binding was more than the piston return spring could overcome, thus the piston stroke became, over time, effectively shorter and ineffective.

The day I discovered the SMC failure I was not prepared (with replacement parts) to rebuild it, however with the parts laid out on a shop towel I really had no alternative. I cleaned the metal bits with a brass wire brush, and scotch-brite, including the cylinder bore, the rubber bits cleaned up with soap and water. I reassembled with a generous amount of brake fluid, and packed the piston rod boot with silicone grease, and bled the SMC from the rear brake master cylinder.

All of this was almost 38,000 miles ago, it's now time for new brake pads, as well as full bleed and replenishment of brake fluid. Go ahead and drive it.

With all due respect....Do you think you would ever hear a mechanic, service manager, Honda service department, or Mother honda recommend operating a vehicle with known brake damage issues?
...Go ahead and drive it....sounds more like something a person's ex-wife would tell him to do :rofl1:

st1300r · Feb 28, 2012

hmmm... If I cleaned it up, dressed the bore, reassembled and it's functioning I'd drive the 50 miles but I'd bring the pictures to show there was an issue.

Igofar · Feb 28, 2012

st1300r said:
hmmm... If I cleaned it up, dressed the bore, reassembled and it's functioning I'd drive the 50 miles but I'd bring the pictures to show there was an issue.

I could hear the shop now...looks ok to me...how do we know those pictures were of this unit?
Its your fault you modified it...we have to take it apart to check it, not the customer, etc.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't clean it out and limp it to the shop, I'm just saying to throw out a statement like go ahead and ride it..could be missunderstood by some folks on the forum.
But then again, I've seen one completely lock up and toss the bike sideways before, without warning, so I'm a little cautious.
Better to Err on the safe side when it comes to brakes.

st1300r · Feb 28, 2012

LOL. A dealer did that to someone here with a failed thermostat.

"How do I know it came out of that bike"?
Like someone had the time to find a failed thermostat on the side of the road to get a free one for a bike that now has a functioning thermostat :spank1:

Anna'sDad · Feb 28, 2012

I wonder which is the greater risk to the operator; a possible malfunctioning OEM brake component, or the same component thoroughly cleaned and reassembled by the operator?

Igofar said:
With all due respect....Do you think you would ever hear a mechanic, service manager, Honda service department, or Mother honda recommend operating a vehicle with known brake damage issues?

Clearly the answer to this question is yes, as Honda has sold (and continues to sell) vehicles that currently have recalls:

'08-'10 ST1300s for loss of rear brake performance...
'03-'04 ST1300A for leaky brake proportional valve...
Additionally Honda has 3.9 million recalls for vehicles (including 130,000 motorcycles) just last year alone.

Igofar said:
But then again, I've seen one completely lock up and toss the bike sideways before, without warning, so I'm a little cautious.

I agree caution is called for. Especially as the SMC as installed on the ST1300 may exhibit problems regarding contamination from road debris, and weather related moisture. Disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of the SMC is certainly a valid preventive maintenance procedure.

Any time an owner decides to perform work on their motorcycle, be it an oil change, adding a farkle to the electric system, or maintaining the brake system, the responsibility for the quality of work, as well as the safety of the motorcycle belongs to the owner.

Good mechanic work habits are really no different than good motorcycle driver habits, or as Inspector Harry Callahan once said, ?A man's got to know his limitations?.

Igofar · Feb 28, 2012

Anna'sDad said:
I wonder which is the greater risk to the operator; a possible malfunctioning OEM brake component, or the same component thoroughly cleaned and reassembled by the operator?

Clearly the answer to this question is yes, as Honda has sold (and continues to sell) vehicles that currently have recalls:

'08-'10 ST1300s for loss of rear brake performance...
'03-'04 ST1300A for leaky brake proportional valve...
Additionally Honda has 3.9 million recalls for vehicles (including 130,000 motorcycles) just last year alone.

I agree caution is called for. Especially as the SMC as installed on the ST1300 may exhibit problems regarding contamination from road debris, and weather related moisture. Disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of the SMC is certainly a valid preventive maintenance procedure.

Any time an owner decides to perform work on their motorcycle, be it an oil change, adding a farkle to the electric system, or maintaining the brake system, the responsibility for the quality of work, as well as the safety of the motorcycle belongs to the owner.

Good mechanic work habits are really no different than good motorcycle driver habits, or as Inspector Harry Callahan once said, “A man's got to know his limitations”.

MidLife · Feb 28, 2012

Igofar said:

You saw one going sideways.......Probably not NHTSA reported either? Honda might be more motivated to address this real issue if there was pressure on them.

Not sure Honda reads this board, so NHTSA might get better result.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Gunz · Feb 29, 2012

UPDATE:
I created a PowerPoint presentation and sent it to my dealer. I informed the SM that a rebuild simply isn't an option, given the condition of the piston and cylinder area. The SM told me that Honda has been telling them to forgo a rebuild and simply replace the caliper for the SMC issue. FWIW, SM told me he was going to send the PPT to the District guy. BTW, I chickened out and parked the bike; it's going to the dealer later this week.

P.S., I was much 'braver' 25 years ago; I would have never 'chickened out' when I was twenty.

Igofar · Feb 29, 2012

Gunz said:
UPDATE:
I created a PowerPoint presentation and sent it to my dealer. I informed the SM that a rebuild simply isn't an option, given the condition of the piston and cylinder area. The SM told me that Honda has been telling them to forgo a rebuild and simply replace the caliper for the SMC issue. FWIW, SM told me he was going to send the PPT to the District guy. BTW, I chickened out and parked the bike; it's going to the dealer later this week.

P.S., I was much 'braver' 25 years ago; I would have never 'chickened out' when I was twenty.

This is because the older we get, the better we were! Your much smarter now :nuts1:
I hope the dealer replaces the entire unit for you.
Ride safe

sennister · Feb 29, 2012

Gunz said:
UPDATE:
I created a PowerPoint presentation and sent it to my dealer. I informed the SM that a rebuild simply isn't an option, given the condition of the piston and cylinder area. The SM told me that Honda has been telling them to forgo a rebuild and simply replace the caliper for the SMC issue. FWIW, SM told me he was going to send the PPT to the District guy. BTW, I chickened out and parked the bike; it's going to the dealer later this week.

P.S., I was much 'braver' 25 years ago; I would have never 'chickened out' when I was twenty.

When you say caliper, I assume you mean the caliper bracket subassembly. This is not the caliper but what the caliper mounts to. When I replaced my SMC the rebuild kit was on backorder rather than sit with my bike out of service I ordered the bracket subassembly as that was available. It comes with SMC parts already installed and I just swapped out everything.

Subassembly $118
vs
SMC rebuild kit $38

So it was more money but it got me back on the road much faster. I read that there was a change in the design of the subassembly (drain hole) but the one I pulled off the bike looked identical to the new one that I installed so maybe I got old stock.

Tom Mac 04a · Feb 29, 2012

sennister said:
new one that I installed so maybe I got old stock

current for the 04 the listed part is 06454-MCS-G02 ( replaced the same # ending in G01 )

sennister · Feb 29, 2012

Tom Mac 04a said:
current for the 04 the listed part is 06454-MCS-G02 ( replaced the same # ending in G01 )

Yep, same thing on my 03. So unless the previous owner had replaced it with the updated one or I got old stock. I am not sure. All I know is that they both had the drain hole and looked the same. I don't have the box as this was almost 2 years ago.

nldaniel · Mar 1, 2012

IIRC, the updated design, with the groove instead of the hole, is only found on the calipers intended for the newer ST's (08 onwards) which also use different pads.

so not necessarily old stock.

hth, Daniel

Gunz · Mar 16, 2012

Interesting note: For all the complaining and commentary on the SMC, a search of the NHTSB revealed only a single report of brake problems on the ST1300. Probably not gonna get much traction at that rate...

:nuts1:

MidLife · Mar 18, 2012

Gunz said:
Interesting note: For all the complaining and commentary on the SMC, a search of the NHTSB revealed only a single report of brake problems on the ST1300. Probably not gonna get much traction at that rate...

:nuts1:

Exactly what I posted above. Do not quite grasp why a SMC failure poster would not report to https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/. Same should apply to thermostat issue.

Mellow · Mar 18, 2012

MidLife said:
Exactly what I posted above. Do not quite grasp why a SMC failure poster would not report to https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/. Same should apply to thermostat issue.

I agree the SMC should be as that could cause some SAFETY related issues, however I disagree about the thermostat as that's just a problem with a part that will not directly impact safety, just the convenience of the part not failing.. in fact, if it does fail you can continue on your trip.

Is This The Dreaded SMC Failure?

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