Replacing the SMC

Sorry, yet another SMC thread.....

I am about to replace my SMC and I wanted to get opinions on the following:
1. After installing a new SMC what do you to try to avoid having problems with the new SMC? Do you just try to dump a bunch of silicone grease under the rubber boot every once in a while?
2. I found the following recommended steps on this website for bleeding the brakes:
Brake Lever
Step 1. Left Outer (upper) bleed valve.
Step 2. Right Outer (upper) bleed valve.

Brake Pedal
Step 3. Remove and tilt left front caliper 15 degrees (wood shims inserted between the pads will keep
the pads from extending while~if pedal is pumped)
Step 4. Proportioning Control bleed valve.
Step 5. Rear Brake Center bleed valve.
Step 6. Right Front Center bleed valve.
Step 7. Left Front Center bleed valve.
Step 8. Rear Outer (forward) bleed valve.

After step 6 do most of you re-install the SMC prior to completing steps 7 & 8?

Thanks,
tman

The SMC is left tilted until all steps are completed, (all circuits after Step 2), then it is reinstalled.

Dave,

Thanks for the response. The information provided at this link:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement

States to re-install the SMC before bleeding the left front lower bleeder & rear back bleeder.
6. Left front caliper. Center (lower) bleeder. Fed from rear reservoir. After re-installing from step three above.
7. Rear caliper. Outer (back) bleeder. Fed from rear reservoir.

Thanks,
tman

tman said:

Sorry, yet another SMC thread.....

I am about to replace my SMC and I wanted to get opinions on the following:
1. After installing a new SMC what do you to try to avoid having problems with the new SMC? Do you just try to dump a bunch of silicone grease under the rubber boot every once in a while?
2. I found the following recommended steps on this website for bleeding the brakes:
Brake Lever
Step 1. Left Outer (upper) bleed valve.
Step 2. Right Outer (upper) bleed valve.

Brake Pedal
Step 3. Remove and tilt left front caliper 15 degrees (wood shims inserted between the pads will keep
the pads from extending while~if pedal is pumped)
Step 4. Proportioning Control bleed valve.
Step 5. Rear Brake Center bleed valve.
Step 6. Right Front Center bleed valve.
Step 7. Left Front Center bleed valve.
Step 8. Rear Outer (forward) bleed valve.

After step 6 do most of you re-install the SMC prior to completing steps 7 & 8?

Thanks,
tman

Click to expand...

After you do step 6, you re-install the left front caliper before you bleed it, then move to the last one on the swingarm.
Make sure you pack the pivot point bearings with waterproof grease before you install the left front caliper.
.02

I use a procedure that re-installs the left front caliper after bleeding all the circuits so I guess it doesn't matter. I have bled my brakes maybe 10 times like this.

You do realize that you are not following the recommended service manual's procedure in doing this.
I don't know what harm it could cause, but I recommend following the service manuals correct procedure since we are working with the brake system.
.02

Igofar said:

You do realize that you are not following the recommended service manual's procedure in doing this.
I don't know what harm it could cause, but I recommend following the service manuals correct procedure since we are working with the brake system.
.02

Click to expand...

IGF, the problem here is that the service manual doesn't actually specify when to remount the SMC/left front caliper back on the bike. It does show the left front caliper remounted to the bike in the photo for the left front caliper center valve bleed though. I've done it both ways and never noticed a difference.

Question for you and I'm not trying to put you on the spot but the SM procedure wants you to bleed out all of the fluid out of the system before filling it with fresh fluid. I suspect that most people never do this, I don't, and I'm wondering what you do???

dduelin said:

The SMC is left tilted until all steps are completed, (all circuits after Step 2), then it is reinstalled.

Click to expand...

Igofar said:

After you do step 6, you re-install the left front caliper before you bleed it, then move to the last one on the swingarm.
.......

Click to expand...

Ok, I need help. Where/when does the service manual tell you to reinstall the SMC? Which year manual is it in? Perhaps when to reinstall the SMC was added to the manual after 2006?

Scooter said:

IGF, the problem here is that the service manual doesn't actually specify when to remount the SMC/left front caliper back on the bike. It does show the left front caliper remounted to the bike in the photo for the left front caliper center valve bleed though. I've done it both ways and never noticed a difference.

Question for you and I'm not trying to put you on the spot but the SM procedure wants you to bleed out all of the fluid out of the system before filling it with fresh fluid. I suspect that most people never do this, I don't, and I'm wondering what you do???

Click to expand...

There was a righteous discussion about the method Metalman and I did when we bled his brakes. I can assure you that we moved fluid through the SMC.

Scooter said:

IGF, the problem here is that the service manual doesn't actually specify when to remount the SMC/left front caliper back on the bike. It does show the left front caliper remounted to the bike in the photo for the left front caliper center valve bleed though. I've done it both ways and never noticed a difference.

Question for you and I'm not trying to put you on the spot but the SM procedure wants you to bleed out all of the fluid out of the system before filling it with fresh fluid. I suspect that most people never do this, I don't, and I'm wondering what you do???

Click to expand...

Scooter, I will answer your question in two parts. (2003-2008 service manual)
On pages 17-8 through 17-9 is shows how to DRAIN all the lines and fittings. In my learnings, this is shown in case a person were to do a complete brake service up to and including replacement of parts or lines.
On pages 17-10 through 17-14 it describes how to bleed the system in the correct order. These are two separate operations. Note: Alot of people also will read into it that you MUST use a commercial bleeder, however, if you read the paragraph on page 17-8, it only states that "when using a commercially available air brake bleeder, follow the manufacturer's operating instructions.
As far as when to remount the left front caliper, on the top of page 17-14, when it states to bleed the left center bleeder, you'll see the left front caliper is already in the mounted position, so it can be bled.
I believe the phrase I'm looking for is a picture is worth a thousand words
I believe its better to Push the old fluid out with fresh fluid to make sure you remove all the old fluid, than it is drain then re-fill and stop when fluid comes out. I've found that this sometimes still leaves sediment and dirty fluid in the lines (If) the person bleeding the lines does not run 2-3 mastercylinders full of fluid through the system. In most shops, I've seen the tech's simply operate the mityvac until fluid comes out, and thats it.
Hope this answers your question.

Fred D said:

There was a righteous discussion about the method Metalman and I did when we bled his brakes. I can assure you that we moved fluid through the SMC.

Click to expand...

See my reply to scooter.

After thinking about this thread for a while, it seems some people have trouble understanding how some service manuals are written.
Have you ever noticed that some things like simple brake service, shows completely stripping down the calipers, pistons, seals, etc.
Common sense would tell you if you were just replacing the pads, you may not need to do all that, but the service manual shows you how, in case your doing a complete service on the brake system.
I just wanted to point out that in addition to Purchasing your OEM Service Manual (which is a great idea) that you should also purchase the OEM Common Service manual.
This is a very large manual that describes the basic COMMON SENSE stuff that HONDA assumes you already know since they assume that you ARE a mechanic working on the bike.
This manual is a great addition to anyones garage if you plan on working on bikes.
.02

Igofar said:

You do realize that you are not following the recommended service manual's procedure in doing this.
I don't know what harm it could cause, but I recommend following the service manuals correct procedure since we are working with the brake system.
.02

Click to expand...

I'll agree with you and defer to the service manual but I'll say again, it doesn't really matter when you reinstall the LF caliper as long as it is removed and tilted before the PVC bleed and reinstalled at the end of the procedure. There was a member here long ago that wrote a 30 page long tutorial that appeared here and on his ST1300 tech service website. I printed it and have used it many times as it went into greater detail than the Honda ST1300 service manual and I appreciated the extra detail.

I'll tell you what Larry. If you grant me the latitude to install the LF caliper last, I'll grant you the latitude to not follow the recommended service manual procedure to use a commercially available air bleed tool. Deal?

Just listen to Igofar. He knows brakes. The only addition I would make is when you tilt the caliper 15 degrees, that pointer on the top of the caliper points to 12 O clock. When I had problems, some how the air was still trapped in the caliper. I finally got the air out when I also pointed it to 11, and 1 O clock before I moved to the next step ...for what its worth. Try it if you are still having problems.
Ron

dduelin said:

I'll agree with you and defer to the service manual but I'll say again, it doesn't really matter when you reinstall the LF caliper as long as it is removed and tilted before the PVC bleed and reinstalled at the end of the procedure. There was a member here long ago that wrote a 30 page long tutorial that appeared here and on his ST1300 tech service website. I printed it and have used it many times as it went into greater detail than the Honda ST1300 service manual and I appreciated the extra detail.

I'll tell you what Larry. If you grant me the latitude to install the LF caliper last, I'll grant you the latitude to not follow the recommended service manual procedure to use a commercially available air bleed tool. Deal?

Click to expand...

....I hear by grant you the latitude to install the LF caliper whenever you wish....however,
If you read the paragraph on page 17-8, it only states that "when using a commercially available air brake bleeder, follow the manufacturer's operating instructions, it does not state that you must use one.
The GL1800 Service manual's are written better. They indicate that you "can" use a commercially availalbe air brake bleeder, OR bleed it the old fashion manual way. They describe both methods in the manual.
Anyway...now since you've been granted your wish, go sail off to far away lands in your sailboat, listening to Jimmy Buffet Music, and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.
P.S. any chance you still have the print out of his tech service sheet or websight? I'd love to see it, as I'm always opened minded to learning more stuff.
Thanks
Igofar

Igofar said:

....I hear by grant you the latitude to install the LF caliper whenever you wish....however,
If you read the paragraph on page 17-8, it only states that "when using a commercially available air brake bleeder, follow the manufacturer's operating instructions, it does not state that you must use one.
The GL1800 Service manual's are written better. They indicate that you "can" use a commercially availalbe air brake bleeder, OR bleed it the old fashion manual way. They describe both methods in the manual.

Igofar

Click to expand...

If you read the paragraphs on pages 17-7, 17-8, 17-9, 17-10, 17-11, 17-12, and 17-13 they all start with "Connect a commercially available air bleed tool to [relevant bleeder]. Loosen [relevant] bleed valve and operate the air bleed tool."

Since we aren't talking about bleeding a GL1800 in this situation I'll refer to my ST1300 Honda service manual coded 61MCS03 2003-2006 with the 2006 updates. Perhaps they changed the wording in the 2007 edition to "when using a".

As if it matters, I use a combination of vacuum and manual methods to complete the procedure. I include the above to appeal to your open-mindedness, in other words "there is more than one way to skin a cat." No offense Sherob.

Larry, check your last PM from me to you.

dduelin said:

If you read the paragraphs on pages 17-7, 17-8, 17-9, 17-10, 17-11, 17-12, and 17-13 they all start with "Connect a commercially available air bleed tool to [relevant bleeder]. Loosen [relevant] bleed valve and operate the air bleed tool."

Since we aren't talking about bleeding a GL1800 in this situation I'll refer to my ST1300 Honda service manual coded 61MCS03 2003-2006 with the 2006 updates. Perhaps they changed the wording in the 2007 edition to "when using a".

As if it matters, I use a combination of vacuum and manual methods to complete the procedure. I include the above to appeal to your open-mindedness, in other words "there is more than one way to skin a cat." No offense Sherob.

Larry, check your last PM from me to you.

Click to expand...

What PM are you referring too? I have no messages from you in my inbox or email?
Its ok if you want to believe everything you read in your service manual, if thats the case, don't forget to torque the oil filter down to 20 foot pounds on your next oil change
I just wish I owned your bike, seems like the tires don't wear, the preload adjuster doesn't leak, the oil lasts forever, your clutch never needs bleeding, it never has coolant leaks, the brake pads don't wear, the pastic clips never break, the seats comfortable....

I think you just want to bust my chops Larry. Fair enough.

The last PM I sent was 7/31/12.

dduelin said:

I think you just want to bust my chops Larry. Fair enough.

The last PM I sent was 7/31/12.

Click to expand...

I wasn't really trying to bust your chops. I guess we just see things differently.
I'm sorry for any and all posts, comments, or suggestions that may have offended you in anyway.
Igofar

I finally got around to replacing my SMC. When I pulled off my SMC it was completely seized up. My rear wheel now moves freely. I was even able to pick up speed coasting down a hill. Amazing what happens when the rear wheel is not dragging.

I stuffed some silicone grease around the boot on the new SMC hoping to avoid this from happening again. I was unable to lift the boot on the SMC. I will play around with my old SMC to try to determine the magic method of lifting the boot without damaging it.

Tman

Tman