Harley Davidson emissions settlement

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Train killer
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I want to buy one and have them tune it to goose the throttle at every stoplight for me. My wrist gets tired revving it up to make people look at me :)
 
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So that's why you see all those hopped-up Harleys on dirt bike trails.:rolleyes:

I wonder if their lawyer could keep a straight face when he claimed they were intended for "off road use only". :-D

Or or perhaps why the local race track is just so clogged up with HD riders that I can't get a time slot.

But seriously, I think if a dealer sells and installs a performance improving "accessory" (especially if it's branded by the manufacturer) that causes changes that exceed the EPA emissions standard then it's the same as the manufacturer selling a non-complying vehicle. Buy and install the item outside the dealer and it is entirely your choice.
Otherwise, VW should have gone this route. Sold the diesels with complying software and gave away or "sold" a reflash for non-complying emmisions software that increased mileage as an "off road" tune. 95% of buyer would opt for the "off road" version.
 

ST Gui

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The more I learn about H-Ds the more I appreciate and respect the line-up. They wouldn't be my primary bike but with that Wallet of Infinite Green (or Plastic) I'd at least have a big Sport. And it would have a 2-into-2 exhaust.

The sound of a big twin is unique and awesome. The only other bikes' sounds that stir my soul so have more than four cylinders and never see the street.

Yeah H-Ds with straight pipes are annoying. There are several options for exhaust that provide a far more satisfying sound that the original factory 2-into-1 pipe that don't rattle windows. Sound is personal. Just ask any ST rider who prefers TB or ST add-ons. Personally I like that the ST's OEM exhaust is quiet but don't care for the nature of the sound (engine or exhaust). Putting TBs or STs on it doesn't change that for me.

And new H-Ds aren't your father's Oldsmobile. They're much much improved. More horse-power more reliable and relatively leak proof. Most people don't buy an H-D and leave it stock aren't concerned with ultimate performance. But they do have the potential for gut-wrenching acceleration compare to just about any other street bike. When drag racing was a big thing Vance and Hines needed two 750-4 engines to even get near a modded H-D.

Any marque can be abused by a rider. The H-D deserves far more respect than it gets because so many fail to look past a rider.

H-Ds aren't for everybody. Neither are MVs M-Gs Ducatis BMWs Ninjas RRs or Burgmans or even STs. But they are for somebodies. I have a lot of appreciation for just about every bike. Not so much for every rider. Life is so much more pleasant if I don't stereotype a bike or its riders.
 
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The more I learn about H-Ds the more I appreciate and respect the line-up. They wouldn't be my primary bike but with that Wallet of Infinite Green (or Plastic) I'd at least have a big Sport. And it would have a 2-into-2 exhaust.

The sound of a big twin is unique and awesome. The only other bikes' sounds that stir my soul so have more than four cylinders and never see the street.

Yeah H-Ds with straight pipes are annoying. There are several options for exhaust that provide a far more satisfying sound that the original factory 2-into-1 pipe that don't rattle windows. Sound is personal. Just ask any ST rider who prefers TB or ST add-ons. Personally I like that the ST's OEM exhaust is quiet but don't care for the nature of the sound (engine or exhaust). Putting TBs or STs on it doesn't change that for me.

And new H-Ds aren't your father's Oldsmobile. They're much much improved. More horse-power more reliable and relatively leak proof. Most people don't buy an H-D and leave it stock aren't concerned with ultimate performance. But they do have the potential for gut-wrenching acceleration compare to just about any other street bike. When drag racing was a big thing Vance and Hines needed two 750-4 engines to even get near a modded H-D.

Any marque can be abused by a rider. The H-D deserves far more respect than it gets because so many fail to look past a rider.

H-Ds aren't for everybody. Neither are MVs M-Gs Ducatis BMWs Ninjas RRs or Burgmans or even STs. But they are for somebodies. I have a lot of appreciation for just about every bike. Not so much for every rider. Life is so much more pleasant if I don't stereotype a bike or its riders.
Well said. I never thought I would own a Harley, but that changed. I have had my Road Glide for over a year and have run the stock exhaust until a couple of months ago, replacing the stock pipes with some V&H 4.5" jobs I bought off eBay. The bike is still pretty quiet, but it sounds more like a V twin should. It is plenty fast for a cruiser as it is. I did not do the full Stage 1 (intake, tuner, headers) as I saw no need to spend that much money for about 5-8 hp maybe gain. Plus, the stock headers contain the catalytic converter material, so I am continuing to be a good steward for the environment, I guess. The big advantage Harley has over everyone else - my experience is that most women like them.

My Ducati, on the other hand, has a CF Leo Vince pipe, which replaced the OEM ugly abomination that came stock, and contains the cat. In this case, I am not being so good. The thing sounds like a Ducati should though, which is to say great.
 
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Well said. I never thought I would own a Harley, I guess. The big advantage Harley has over everyone else - my experience is that most women like them.
I love almost all of their unfairing'ed bikes but Harley women....not so much :D
 

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I love almost all of their unfairing'ed bikes but Harley women....not so much :D
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Actually they did assert this defense when agreeing to the settlement. Maybe selling 339,000 of them and only one set of knobby tires tipped the case to the EPA. :D
Now that there is funny :rofl1:
 
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What probably put a nail in it for Harley Davidson was the fact when you ordered or purchased a bike, you were offered a selection of choices and stage tune up parts to be installed before you took delivery of the bike.
Their screaming eagle catalog was mostly all for closed circuit tracks and off road :rofl1:
I am surprised that more dealerships were not hit for altering the bikes before delivery.
 

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This thread makes me feel good to be part of ST-O and the civility that prevails here. This topic in other forums has taken all sorts of ugly turns.
 
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I love the fact that HD was so brazen about it. Let's face it, these tuners are not the cause of global warming, just go fast parts to make our bikes faster.

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Harley already has a modern motor that performs and runs clean. The V-Rod. If buyers were serious about performance they'd be demanding the V-Rod motor across the board. The air-cooled motor will be a performance albatross around Harley's neck for the foreseeable future.


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The air-cooled motor will be a performance albatross around Harley's neck for the foreseeable future
Not for sure if selling 267,999 (2014) is an albatross :)

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I bought my classic 2 months ago and the dealer gave me the here's all the other stuff you can buy too tour. I was surprised that the parts folks really down-sold the pipes and engine mods. It was more like a long disclaimer than a sales pitch. I didn't want any of those (especially noise enhancers) but it surprised me. They must have been told by HD to do that. Also the number of those devices sold over the years isn't nearly as many as I would have thought either considering how many bikes they sell in a year. And considering how much people seem to love mod-ing (spending money on) engine enhancements to the point of the ridiculous like putting a twin turbo and nitrous oxide on a Busa. Reminds me of the computer over-clockers that would burn out their computers trying to squeak out just a little more speed. That's not my bag baby.:D
 

ST Gui

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jmcarruth said:
...it sounds more like a V twin should... The thing sounds like a Ducati should though, which is to say great.
+1 to everything you said and especially this. One of the biggest mistakes I made in my youth was to get rid of my 750 Duc Sport. The sound with the Conti 2-into-2s was AWESOME. It wasn't loud (well maybe at 0330 when I went to work!) but I could listen to that 90? twin all day long with no fatigue whatsoever.

CA wants to have electric (which means all-electric) vehicles generate some noise so that pedestrians and bicyclists will hear their approach. I'd like to one day have an electric bike and a third-party sound generator that would let me dial up at least to bike sounds- a big twin and an RD350 with and without Dencos. And a volume control. (The Vroom thing from Mattel came after my childhood.)
 

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+1 to everything you said and especially this. One of the biggest mistakes I made in my youth was to get rid of my 750 Duc Sport. The sound with the Conti 2-into-2s was AWESOME. It wasn't loud (well maybe at 0330 when I went to work!) but I could listen to that 90? twin all day long with no fatigue whatsoever.

CA wants to have electric (which means all-electric) vehicles generate some noise so that pedestrians and bicyclists will hear their approach. I'd like to one day have an electric bike and a third-party sound generator that would let me dial up at least to bike sounds- a big twin and an RD350 with and without Dencos. And a volume control. (The Vroom thing from Mattel came after my childhood.)
You could probably still find the Duc, the internet is amazing.
Then we also need to put noise generators on the pedestrians and bicyclists (preferably hd or duc sounds)... for safety's sake. ;)
 

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Not for sure if selling 267,999 (2014) is an albatross :)
The only way to get more power from a Harley is to make it dirty and loud(er). The last stock 88 I rode was running out of breath at 85mph. There just wasn't much left. We seldom see or hear a modded 'Wing because it performs satisfactorily in stock trim. Just imagine of how many more Harley's might be sold if they offered the level of performance that owners seem to want without having to run loud and dirty, and at extra cost.

Eric Buell was a genius who did amazing things with the Sportster motor. He ultimately ran into a performance wall that is designed into the motor. That's why he contracted with Rotax to build a modern motor. If Harley hadn't meddled, Buell could have been the Corvette of motorcycling.


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davidrider

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They don't need to make them dirty. They just up the engine size like every other manufacturer is doing these days. My 103 HO is clean and has plenty of pull at any legal or near legal speed. HD makes several liquid cooled engines these days (the 500/750 street, vrod, and the touring bikes like the ultra). One thing Harley is good at though is knowing how to sell. With a little over half the US market share they pull in about 6 billion annually. What other vehicle manufacturer has that kind of market share? Also, according to consumer reports (for what that's worth), Harley has the highest satisfaction in engine performance. It's not that the bikes are fast obviously, it's that most of the consumers of HD's aren't looking for performance type bikes. Given the small (nearly pointless) improvement in performance these enhancements give, I chalk the sales they had mostly up to people who just wanted to spend more money on their favorite toy (who doesn't want to do that?). A Harley and even a Buell simply won't appeal to someone looking for a sport/racing type of bike. The race replica market is quite crowded as it is and sadly Buells just didn't sell well (nor has any other American sport bike really).
As for the article, I suspect HD caved quickly for two reasons: one to avoid a marketing black eye if it seemed like they didn't care about the environment and two it just wasn't that big a business for them (they could afford to give it up). The manufacturers where this is their bread and butter will of course fight to the bitter end (if they have to).
 
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