Pan European future

Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
12
Age
59
Location
Scotland
Hi all

I am a week away from picking up my new ST1300, as I have said already this is my second one in 7 years. When I bought mine in 2010 it was an A9 and at that point my dealer told me that was the last of them. Yet here I am buying another new one in 2017, granted it's an AE model which means it must have rolled of the assembly line in 2014 or thereafter, there is conflicting information on this. I took advantage of a good discount on a great bike I already know. This time it looks official and the end of this Pan.

Now I am probably typically buying the last of a model and then find that a new one gets released, I am not concerned as I am happy to be buying a bike that has been well developed and had a long production run, a bike I already know well.

But Honda seems so silent about a replacement, what do you all think, have we seen the end of this great bike.

I have an Africa Twin with DCT and I love this technology, I know there is rumour the next Wing will have this option this would also be great as an option on a future plan. What would you want on the next Pan if it was released. Do you think we will see another. I hope so.

If Honda ignore a replacement that would seem a massive oversight when there is such a large following that has huge presence through groups like this and the Pan Clan.

Finally are we seeing the real start of the demise of the combustion engine, as fuel and emission laws change, we know the resources are running out and hence the emergence of electric vehicles, I can't imagine never having the beautiful sound of an engine or the aesthetics of it in a motorcycle. At 52 I am maybe fortunate that for me the change will not really affect me.

New generations will adopt what is available and the art of riding a bike will still survive, I will just be some old git talking about the smell of fumes and the revs and vibrations that made me feel alive and mourn the losss of a major part of my past.

Cheers


Paul
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
4,759
Location
Northumberland UK
Bike
VStrom 650
Old git? Maybe,but you're not alone there.
Good luck with your new ST13, they are still a good bike and well developed.
What's coming next? It's a changing world, or so they say. Hybrid, electric, hydrogen, who knows.
Will we get a new Pan, I think not, at least not as we know it. It's like the car market, who buys a saloon anymore, it's all SUV and crossover's.
When you see the trend worldwide it's towards off road/rugged styling for cars and bikes. I still think Honda thought we would all rush out to buy VFR1200's but it's no Pan. Great bike but no Pan.
Enjoy your ride.
Upt'North.
 
OP
OP
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
12
Age
59
Location
Scotland
Old git? Maybe,but you're not alone there.
Good luck with your new ST13, they are still a good bike and well developed.
What's coming next? It's a changing world, or so they say. Hybrid, electric, hydrogen, who knows.
Will we get a new Pan, I think not, at least not as we know it. It's like the car market, who buys a saloon anymore, it's all SUV and crossover's.
When you see the trend worldwide it's towards off road/rugged styling for cars and bikes. I still think Honda thought we would all rush out to buy VFR1200's but it's no Pan. Great bike but no Pan.
Enjoy your ride.
Upt'North.
I think you are spot on about the VFR, it was still a great bike but missed a few key points that killed it. But I think you are right Honda edged their bets on the VFR replacing the Pan and it failed and it may be there were no other plans other than that. Adventure bikes have become the new tourer, they are good, I Love my AT but every bike I have had since the Pan I know that my partner just says either it's no good as a pillion bike or it's ok but not as good as the Pan.

My partner actually thinks I am buying a VFR she does not actually know that next Saturday it's a Pan I am bringing home, I really want to spend our last years together with her back in the happiest place. Hence me taking the opportunity to get another and I look back on my last one with fond memories. I wish I had kept it but circumstances played there part. Still here is to the future and my next one.
 

Erdoc48

Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
1,422
Age
59
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC/ Sometimes Colorado
Bike
94/00/04 STs, FSC600
As with cars, it all amounts to sales- the ST series (1100 and 1300) weren't really high volume bikes (it seems there's a lot of them around as on this forum since they have been made for many years - 1991- 2014 or so) but Honda probably won't do the R&D to make a new Pan/ST since overall, it won't gain them the money. It's like Toyota in a way- for years, they concentrated on Camrys, SUV's, and Corollas, so no real sports cars like back in the 80's and 90's with Supras and MR2s (I have a 2004 MR2 Spyder- never will give that up). Anyway, the companies are there to make money and not necessarily to make bike owners happy or satisfied, so I also predict no ST replacement.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
39
Location
Buckhorn, Kentucky
The market for this genre of bike is too large to ignore. Look at all the models that fit this category and how the companies that make them continue to develop them. Honda will introduce a new Pan. It also works well for those that do not want the bulk and weight of a Gold Wing or Harley FL series but do want the sport riding potential to liven up the touring side. BMW seems to justify their models and their customers seem to endure the anxiety of travel between too few dealers.

Adventure styled bikes will give way again when the riders grow up, get tired of the struggle of keeping one foot on the ground, tired of dropping and repairing them and buying two thousand dollars worth of extras to make it practical for long distance touring. This is a fad that appeals to vanity. I've taken Gold Wings and various sport touring models on rougher rides than 95% of the adventure dweebs ever manage.

Internal combustion engines are here forever. The technology will dramatically improve (watch for some new tech from our friends in Japan that will make gas engines far more thermodynamically efficient than any diesel, coming soon) and there is no shortage of carbon fuels for the next generations. Hybrids and electrics are there to balance the very low milage guzzlers in the inventory sold so the companies can show the EPA, EU, etc., they have an acceptable average mpg lineup. 1%, 3% of the total vehicles sold? That is not enough to make any kind of dent in global carbon emissions.

Honda will introduce something that will carry them at least 10 years without major changes. It has to be enough of an advancement in the industry to draw customers from other brands. The build quality, no one can match. The long distance running with maintenance costs that approach economy cars (except for the tires) no one can match. The market still exists despite what some believe and it will expand again when practical thinking comes back in vogue.
 

ChucksKLRST

Team Colorado
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,659
Age
74
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Bike
2019 Versys 1K SE LT
STOC #
086
The market for this genre of bike is too large to ignore. Look at all the models that fit this category and how the companies that make them continue to develop them. Honda will introduce a new Pan. It also works well for those that do not want the bulk and weight of a Gold Wing or Harley FL series but do want the sport riding potential to liven up the touring side. BMW seems to justify their models and their customers seem to endure the anxiety of travel between too few dealers.

again when practical thinking comes back in vogue.
Are you sure? Just as the ST1300, I believe that practical thinking is a lost art and gone forever from our world.:-(
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
256
Location
Grand Rapids, Mn
Bike
2004 ST1300
There-in lies the biggest issue. Both on the engineering/development side and the consumer/buyer side. The markets are driven more by fads than practicality. Not that it's a bad thing for the advancement of technology, just that it doesn't often fill the practical needs of some of us.
 

ST Gui

240Robert
Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
9,263
Location
SF-Oakland CA
Bike
ST1300, 2010
:BDH:
It's practical thinking that has told Honda there's insufficient ROI for them in the sport-touring market and Blrfl has pointed out on several occasions they can make a lot more money in small displacement bikes very popular in other countries.

I'd love to be wrong on this and if that were to happen I could easily suffer the neener-neeners and I told you sos.
 

W0QNX

Blacksheep Tribal Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
3,313
Location
Pensacola, FL. USA
Bike
06/ST1300 19/R1250RT
2024 Miles
007437
I recently bought a 2017 Civic LX. It has a 1.5L turbo engine that cranks out near 180 horsepower. CVT transmission works so smooth..The car goes pretty fast when stomped and will get 45+ mpg at 65 mph with the engine pulling that 3,000 pound car at 1800-1900 rpm.

Man would it ever be nice if Honda would adapt that setup to a 600-700 pound sport touring bike. Of course I see lots of Civic's daily but only 2 ST's in my small town (32,000).....
 

ReSTored

Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
1,472
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
Bike
2019 Tracer GT
STOC #
4463
I think Honda tried to leverage the 1300 engine and some of the ST parts in the CTX1300 and it was not a success. Given relatively low volume ST market ( and the CXT failure in increasing sales volume for some major ST components ) I don't think we're going to see an ST replacement anytime soon, but I'd like to be wrong on this.

I wonder how Yamaha views the FJR1300 platform in terms of sales and its future as well. More sport than touring compared to the ST and likely higher volumes, but is it going to sunset at some point as well?

If you are really committed to the ST and have racked up a 150,000 - 200,000++ miles and spent a small fortune farkling the bike there are going to be many low mileage ST's kicking around for many years. Buy a much newer bike from someone who road a couple of thousand miles a year, transfer all or most of your accessories over to the newer bike and then sell of the old bike for whatever you can get for it or keep it for parts. While the ST is a bit dated it's still a fantastic ride and this would be a relatively cheap way of leveraging your experience with the ST, the farkles you've already paid for and effectively extending your ST ride on a low mileage platform for another 5 - 7 years.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
1,957
Location
near Harrow, Ontario, Canada
Bike
'83 BMW R100RS
STOC #
8870
I think Honda tried to leverage the 1300 engine and some of the ST parts in the CTX1300 and it was not a success. Given relatively low volume ST market ( and the CXT failure in increasing sales volume for some major ST components ) I don't think we're going to see an ST replacement anytime soon, but I'd like to be wrong on this.

I wonder how Yamaha views the FJR1300 platform in terms of sales and its future as well. More sport than touring compared to the ST and likely higher volumes, but is it going to sunset at some point as well?

If you are really committed to the ST and have racked up a 150,000 - 200,000++ miles and spent a small fortune farkling the bike there are going to be many low mileage ST's kicking around for many years. Buy a much newer bike from someone who road a couple of thousand miles a year, transfer all or most of your accessories over to the newer bike and then sell of the old bike for whatever you can get for it or keep it for parts. While the ST is a bit dated it's still a fantastic ride and this would be a relatively cheap way of leveraging your experience with the ST, the farkles you've already paid for and effectively extending your ST ride on a low mileage platform for another 5 - 7 years.

+1 on that ReSTored!

While it isn't perfect and Honda really dropped the ball on some things like self cancelling turn signals etc., I really like my ST and plan to keep it going as long as I can. There just doesn't seem to be anything else on the market quite like it and FJR and Concours aside, nothing really competes. I've looked at and sat on both of those bikes and while they do have more power, they don't have Honda build quality (IMHO) and they are simply too much sport and not enough touring.

Besides, the ST will blow the doors off most other bikes and any car - and with a top speed of over 240 km/hr, what the heck would I do with more power anyway?
 
OP
OP
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
12
Age
59
Location
Scotland
Congratulations on the new Pan. They are still an excellent bike, and still stack up well against the competitors. The journalists are not so keen on singing their praises, but they don't often live with them for the mileage that we do. There are no other large touring bikes on the market that I would consider - although I keep looking.

The AE designation indicates that it is the 2014 model - ie the same model that they first produced in 2014. It could have come off the production line any time between 2014 and now. The A9 model that you had previously continued to be manufactured for the UK until towards the end of 2013 - there were no models in between the A9 and the AE - and it wasn't because they had a load of them left unsold. My A9 came off the production line in Mid September 2013. (I have a copy of the production control slip from Honda) At the time I read a lot of reports that said that the ST1300 was no longer being produced, which was clearly not true.

I got the production slip because I was 'discussing' the year of the bike with the dealer, who was trying to convince me that the one I was about to buy was a 2013 produced bike. He was correct in fact, but he was using a lot of information which I knew to be incorrect - which made me very wary, and I wasn't about to buy a bike that had been sitting around in a shop for 4 years. I got in touch (eventually) with Honda and they explained that on cars the 10th character of the VIN number represents the year of manufacture. On bikes it represents the year of the model. So I wanted to know how I could tell when it had been manufactured - and basically there isn't a way to tell from the bike or its documentation - so they emailed me a copy of the production slip. The dealer should be able to get a copy for you.

Thanks John that is very useful information, the information is very sparse. Even finding out that the model range went beyond A9 took a bit to confirm. I know the dealer took a pair in last year and one was sold last July. Handy to know this information. Journalists don't really care for old tackle and like you say they would never be on one long enough to appreciate it. I know when I got my first one it took two running in trips to Dunoon in most terential rain to
Really click with how brilliant a bike it was, it just got better after that, took me by surprise how good it was. I used that one for trips and commuting, I used it for daily commute through 3 winters and when I sold it it was still like the day it came out the showroom, I did look after it but the quality is outstanding, I love the V4 and I love the way Pan sounds, it's very addictive and different. I know what I am getting into and extremely exited and warmed to be putting one back in my garage but most of all the adventures to come with Eileen, she will be really happy to be back on her limousine
 

MajorTom

QuickBlue
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
646
Location
Devon, Alberta
STOC #
8781
I am a week away from picking up my new ST1300...
Congratulations on the new ride Paul. I'm curious about what colour it is. Here in North America we've only had Henry Ford's choice for several years, until they finally stopped producing them altogether (cause and effect maybe :)). The blue was only produced in 2004 and I've always envied the variety of colours in which the Pan was available.
 

Blrfl

Natural Rider Enhancement
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
5,689
Age
55
Location
Northern Virginia
Bike
Fast Blue One
STOC #
4837
What is the difference between the A9 and AE ?
Year of production. Every year is technically a different product even if nothing changes.

The (a?) convention among Japanese manufacturers has been to designate a version and production year after the model. The first of both would be A1, then A2, etc. Kawasaki would just keep bumping the year (e.g, VN750A7, VN750A12); Honda switches to letters after the digits run out (ST1300A9, ST1300AA, ST1300AB, etc.). If a model persists but undergoes a major change, they bump the version and go back to 1.

The 1300 appeared in 2002 and would be the A1. The A9 would be the 2010 model and the AE would be 2014.

--Mark
 

Dave.David

Rider
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
716
Location
SB California USA
Bike
05,ST1300-04VTX1800R
STOC #
8938
Thank you Mark.
I just was thinking with the advancement in technology between 2002 and 2012 you would think Honda might have added a few accessories.
 
OP
OP
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
12
Age
59
Location
Scotland
Congratulations on the new ride Paul. I'm curious about what colour it is. Here in North America we've only had Henry Ford's choice for several years, until they finally stopped producing them altogether (cause and effect maybe :)). The blue was only produced in 2004 and I've always envied the variety of colours in which the Pan was available.
It's a Black one but to me it looks more on the darker grey side of things, very nice and suits it, red and a strange blue are the other colour available but they are beginning to sell out.

PEARL COSMIC BLACK
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Top Bottom