Wheel Bearings on the non-flange side

aa0yy

Mark Choate
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7639
Recently I discovered, like so many of you, that the wheel bearings in the rear wheel flange side were bad. I order a kit with all the bearings, dust seal and O-rings, from http://www.cbrbearing.com/. Even though I only found the the flange side bearings to be bad, I thought I would change them all while I was at it. Before attempting any new projects on my STeed I always check our forums for whatever info might be available. I found lots of threads on the wheel bearings but nothing really about the NON-FLANGE side of the wheel, hence this post. So with my replacement kit in hand, I attempted to R&R the bearings. I have done lots of bearing jobs in the past, pressing things in and out, on and off, beating and smacking away. The flange side went very smooth, the non-flange side.... not so much.

In my ignorance, it almost cost me a wheel. If I had paid more attention to the drawing with the cut-a-way view of the wheel, on page 16-10 of the service manual, I could have avoided any issues.

The purpose of this thread and its accompanying pictures is to possibly help anyone like me that missed it the first time in the manual. A picture is truly worth a thousand words. The way and only way those bearing come out is in your face. By that I mean, as you are facing the bearing, looking straight at it, that bearing has to come out straight at you. Try taking a a long punch and slide it throught the inner race and spacer to the bearing on the bottom, hopefully the spacer that is in between these two bearings has enough wiggle to it that you can catch and edge of the inner race of the far side bearing and drive it out. Once one of the bearings is out it becomes easy to get the other out.
DO NOT TRY TO DRIVE/PRESS BOTH BEARINGS OUT THE SAME DIRECTION.
There are shoulders in the wheel that prevent this as seen in the drawing on pg 16-10. However if you are attempting this with a hydraulic press, it is powerful enough to push both the bearings out the same direction but then you have destroyed the wheel. Don't ask me how I know this :cool:




these pics are with the bearings removed so you can see the shoulder inside of the wheel that the bearings rest on.





next time I think I will just replace the flange side bearings if that's all that is bad. Like my wise buddy "Papa Glenn" says, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

don't ya just hate really long post?
Mark aa0yy :)
 

Mellow

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Good stuff to know thanks!

The flange bearings to appear to be the ones that go out most.. I have heard of some that have had front bearings go out but even that I would consider somewhat rare compared to the flange bearings.
 

Gonzo

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Good job, Mike.

I appreciate the better info post. On the issue of whether to replace bearings, I like to err on the side of caution. The cost of the bearings themselves outweigh the hassle and inconvenience to go into the bearing area twice.

gonzo
 

Papa

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Dinkie Diesel

------------Jeff------------
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Mark, I sure hope I am not to read into your post that you ruined the wheel??? As of our conversation you had applied 14,000lb of force with your press and she didn't move. Did you try again?

All I can say is thanks for telling us. I'm quite sure I would have made the same mistake. I elected not to change mine even though I bought the kit like you did from CBR. Which flange bearing did you buy - the two replacements or the single needle bearing?
 
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Mark Choate
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7639
Mark, I sure hope I am not to read into your post that you ruined the wheel??? As of our conversation you had applied 14,000lb of force with your press and she didn't move. Did you try again?

All I can say is thanks for telling us. I'm quite sure I would have made the same mistake. I elected not to change mine even though I bought the kit like you did from CBR. Which flange bearing did you buy - the two replacements or the single needle bearing?
well the wheel seems to be fine. i put about 3 hundred miles on it this weekend and no issues. I got the single "upgrade" bearing for 5 more buxs. lets keep our fingers crossed.

Mark
 

Dinkie Diesel

------------Jeff------------
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well the wheel seems to be fine. i put about 3 hundred miles on it this weekend and no issues. I got the single "upgrade" bearing for 5 more buxs. lets keep our fingers crossed.

Mark
Don't be afraid to slide that inner race out on that "upgraded" bearing and dab a little grease in there during tire changes. Well, that's what I do anyway. Glad to hear you aren't buying a new wheel. How much do you think a new rim is? $1400.00???? :D
 

Papa

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Now I'm curious as to how well this single CBR bearing holds up. My thinking is, if one of the duals pukes, you still have the other to carry the axel. If the single pukes, are you SOL? How will it affect the final drive splines, hub? I have replaced three bearings on the drive side of my 04, always the outside bearing was notchy, the inside was still good. I'm no engineer so any thoughts or experiences on this?
 
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Mark Choate
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Now I'm curious as to how well this single CBR bearing holds up. My thinking is, if one of the duals pukes, you still have the other to carry the axel. If the single pukes, are you SOL? How will it affect the final drive splines, hub? I have replaced three bearings on the drive side of my 04, always the outside bearing was notchy, the inside was still good. I'm no engineer so any thoughts or experiences on this?
Well I'm no engineer either but I play one down at the post office sometimes. I hear your reasoning there Papa on if one pukes you got the other. But what sold me on the idea was that this roller bearing was rated at twice the load of the other two bearings combined. Plus I believe with the roller you have more surface area for the load. Guess we shall see.

Oh and Jeff I never priced the wheel but I'm feeling pretty confident that all is okay. been driving it everyday and all seems good. I now want to research this Michelin pilot road 2.... with a "B" rating??? for riding loaded or two up or just with a fat postal worker.
Mark
 

Fortunet 1

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Thanks to you guys for discussing this issue !

Could you reveaal to me weather these are sealed bearings, or can I prevent future problems like this by greasing bearings ....when the wheel is off.

Ive doen plenty of trailer, dirt bikes, etc.....and would be nice to know if this is a preventative maintence spot?

Thanks again for writing about this, photos and all. LOVE IT !
 

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This is what I used to pull the bearings on the front wheel...

Bearing Puller Set

Worked Great! :hat1:

Other then the fact I used a hammer and an old axel to knock it out, instead of using the slide hammer...
 

Mark

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Now I'm curious as to how well this single CBR bearing holds up. My thinking is, if one of the duals pukes, you still have the other to carry the axel.

If I remember how people figure failure probability the use of 2 bearings *increases* the probability of failure...
 
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Mark Choate
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Pacific, MO
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7639
Could you reveaal to me weather these are sealed bearings, or can I prevent future problems like this by greasing bearings ....when the wheel is off.
These bearing are not serviceable/grease-able. don't know if you read the post from Mike but he listed an excellent link about why he... or the author of the link... thinks the flange bearings always fail due to an improperly machined flange. here is his quote. hope it helps.

I'm getting ready to change the bearings on my 04, thought I might as well change the bearings on the non flange side while I was in there. I came across this article looking around, thought it might be interesting to anyone changing the rear wheel bearings.
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php?debug;topic=12528.msg275325#msg275325:
:04biker:
 
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Mark Choate
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
48
Location
Pacific, MO
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2005 ST
STOC #
7639
This is what I used to pull the bearings on the front wheel...

Bearing Puller Set

Worked Great! :hat1:

Other then the fact I used a hammer and an old axel to knock it out, instead of using the slide hammer...
looks like a fine tool for the job. looks pretty pro quality. Think even Harbor Freight has an adequate one. I LOVE TOOLS :)
 
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It seems that when one of the two flange bearings bites the dust, the other is right behind. Fragments from one get into the other and the whole thing is kaput.

I had an '03 that needed flange bearings at 12k miles, They were not totally destroyed like some, but were rough and notchy and would have totally failed soon. I picked up some quality Timken bearings (not cheap!) and took them to an automotive machine shop to be pressed in. They were so tight the guy had to chill the new bearings and warm the flange to get them in safely. He thought the tighness might be the cause of the failures. He also called the original bearings "cheap c*%p". Sure enough, in another 12k miles the new bearings were getting notchy, too. I replaced the entire flange assembly and the new bearings slipped easily into place! This one lasted forever. Conclusion? I think Honda had some problems with machining quality and tolerances on some early bikes - maybe later ones, too.

Not typical of Honda, but at least it isn't a BMW-type final drive failure!

pete
 

Dinkie Diesel

------------Jeff------------
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Honda has those flanges made in China! :crackup :rofl1:

It must be a QC issue. My new (one piece - roller)bearing slipped in using a piece of wood and a hammer like butter. Not to be confused with the OP's (this thread) wheel bearings.
 
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