ABS V NON ABS

judgecb1300

judgecb1300

Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
47
Location
winchester UK
Bike
st1300
Found this by chance
some of you may have already seen it
if not enjoy
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjQ8krM5SI"]YouTube - ABS en acci n
 
Excellent!!! That's why we should have ABS and not listen to the self-crowned "riding god" journalists who complain about reduction in control.

Not every motorcyclist can be a Rossi, Spies, Lorenzo or motorcycling journalist!!!

In this months "Motorcycle Sport and Leisure" magazine, one of the columnists, (one Steve Rose), states that ABS "significantly increases braking distances and riders should adjust their braking points to compensate"..........!!!!!

My first ST1300 didn't have it and thank goodness, I never needed it, but........ earlier this year, I had a serioud accident on my other bike, a Triumph Tiger 1050. The Police motorcyclist who attended the accident asked if my Tiger had ABS. It didn't. The Police officer said he would NEVER ride a bike without ABS and suggested that my accident may have been avoided if my bike had ABS.

The Tiger was written off and I was lucky to be still here. With the insurance payout, I traded my trusty ST1300 for a newer on fitted with ABS.
 
A highly trained professional (eg. front running racer) MIGHT be able to stop sooner in/on a non-ABS vehicle but for 99.9999% of the population, ABS is the answer. Factor in control in a panic stop, and its a no brainer. The only time (I think) a non ABS can stop quicker is if the surface is loose as in gravel or snow then the little ramp buildup in front of the wheels aids stopping.
Wish I had it on my bike.

Rod
 
I am surprised no one has posted "ABS saved my bacon X times" yet.
 
I don't ever remember mine kicking in unless I force it. The ABS on my BMW kicks in a lot on the rear wheel. But the Beemer is about 250 pounds lighter than my ST1300. Nothing scientific, just seat-of-the-pants observation.
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I am wondering how much of the dramatic sideways problem is reduced by the linked braking on the ST. I don't have ABS on mine but I am very impressed with the linked braking and how it also helps with control. Too bad there isn't a ST ABS vs. ST non-ABS demonstration.
 
drrod said:
A highly trained professional (eg. front running racer) MIGHT be able to stop sooner in/on a non-ABS vehicle but for 99.9999% of the population, ABS is the answer. Factor in control in a panic stop, and its a no brainer.

Rod
Click to expand...

And even if he can out-stop the ABS equipped bike, I'll bet money he can't do it the first time he tries. This would be true under ideal conditions, no element of surprise, clean even surface, etc.. Having attended and participated in braking tests for MCN, those stopping distance figures they publish almost always take several tries to achieve WITH a professional rider aboard.

With ABS bikes it only takes one try to achieve a shorter stopping distance than the pro can attain on his first try on a non-ABS bike. On occasion they cannot beat the ABS distance.
 
Just makes me more glad I have the abs. I had the Honda 1984 V65 Sabre and the st stops much much quicker and handles better as well. The number one reason I sold it was to get a bike with ABS. I would not want to own a bike with out abs. It is very forgiving and I feel it could save my life. Their are a lot of great bikes but the top of the list starts with abs equiped bikes. Be sure to tell your dealer you want more bikes with abs and do not buy any bike with out it. Maybe the manfactures will get the message.

Just a thought!

Bob:06biker:
 
Only had ABS kick in once at about 20mph briefly, on a gravelly surface in a straight line, when a dog ran across the road in front of me..... if I hadn't had it, I think I would have been okay but stuck to the seat.......:eek:

Only other time it may have been required it didn't kick in but maximum braking was definitely happening..... perhaps the new front Avon Storm just gripped too well, problem is, I still hit the stupid idiot who turned across me.....:mad:
 
I hear a lot of naysayers about ABS but I would bet odds and a good amount of cash they couldnt beat ABS for stopping other than in a controlled ,straight and dry pavement. as for not learning skills because of it we all would have known how to hicht a horse and buggy back in the day and dont have much need for it now . Should we know how to stop without ABs , YES , should we take advantage of whats out there t obetter our odds YES, I have a ABS St1300 and a nonABS ZX14 I wish my ZX14 had ABS . Either way no matter what you ride you should practice practice practice as that will better our odds of making it home more than anthing else will . ABS is a tool not a save all for those who make mistakes . My self I would rather have the tool and not need it then not have it and need it badly right now
 
We can always discuss ABS and the merits and disadvantages. For me I agree that the fundamentals are important. My kids will get dirt bikes. That is where I learned how to ride and where I learned traction control for braking and acceleration. Those skill directly translate to the street side of things and I would say those skills have saved me more than ABS. While ABS has possibly saved me a couple times knowing how to drift around a corner has saved me 20 some times. That said the 2 big reasons I wanted to replace my 1100 was ABS and a bigger alternator. While I could have upgraded the alternator on my 1100 there is no way to add ABS that is practicable. I ride a lot more in the rain now than I did when I first got the 1100. I got the 1100 for free also so it isn't like I could beat the deal.
 
Blue bye you said:
The problem is, you can't practice or learn, impending lockup modulated braking on and ABS bike. It won't let you get there, or shouldn't if it's working right.
Click to expand...

Pulling the "A" fuse on an ABS bike will turn it into a non-ABS bike.

Because everybody is so willing to believe in technology whether we understad it or not. The more you depend on technology, the less you have to do or think for yourself and the less capable you become. 100 years ago 90% of the population could survive on there own in the wilderness. Now 90% of us wouldn't last 2 days.
Click to expand...

Yes, and 90 bazillion years ago you had single-celled organisms that could survive on their own. Those organisms evolved into complex, multi-celled organisms that have cells that specialize in certain things and can't live on their own.

--Mark
 
My 07 is non-ABS. I low sided and slid 130' after a pick up truck ran a 2 way stop intersection last May. I was totally alert and I have mentally and physically practiced deceleration runs on my MC many times prior to that incident. It is NOW my opinion that a person possibly cannot control the "startle" factor as there is no way we can predict how the impending danger will be perceived and processed by our mind.

I am a retired fireman (35 years) who is fairly adept at reacting in precise and pre-conditioned ways to emergency incidents while under immediate reaction demands. I have conditioned myself re: emergency braking and I still locked up the rear wheel. Replaying the incident, I BELIEVE I applied proper force to both brakes. But I have to conclude my muscle control was not adequate though I avoided impact and did all the "classic low side" crap. Properly engineered Electro Mechanical braking aids can make a difference as long as they are used as recommended. I will never know if ABS would have kept me on a straight path putting me into the offending vehicle. I somewhat doubt there are that many highly talented and experienced track level riders here that can out perform a good ABS system though I am sure some are likely to think they can.
 
FlexyRacer said:
My 07 is non-ABS. I low sided and slid 130' after a pick up truck ran a 2 way stop intersection last May. I was totally alert and I have mentally and physically practiced deceleration runs on my MC many times prior to that incident. It is NOW my opinion that a person possibly cannot control the "startle" factor as there is no way we can predict how the impending danger will be perceived and processed by our mind.

I am a retired fireman (35 years) who is fairly adept at reacting in precise and pre-conditioned ways to emergency incidents while under immediate reaction demands. I have conditioned myself re: emergency braking and I still locked up the rear wheel. Replaying the incident, I BELIEVE I applied proper force to both brakes. But I have to conclude my muscle control was not adequate though I avoided impact and did all the "classic low side" crap. Properly engineered Electro Mechanical braking aids can make a difference as long as they are used as recommended. I will never know if ABS would have kept me on a straight path putting me into the offending vehicle. I somewhat doubt there are that many highly talented and experienced track level riders here that can out perform a good ABS system though I am sure some are likely to think they can.
Click to expand...

That is a good point. Another thing to consider is that when scared the fight or flight reaction kicks in. This typically releases adrenaline into your system. I am sure that most people have seen stories how you can get super human strength in situations like this. Well super human strength on a break lever without ABS may not be a good thing. You brain may think it is applying the brakes like you practice but in reality you may be squeezing it to the bar.

When practicing braking on my 1100 I would practice hard stops. I would do so with only my index and middle finger. These fingers, while stronger than the others, lack leverage on the lever. I figured it would be harder for me to squeeze the lever that hard in a panic and lessen the risk of locking the front.

I only had one case where I wish I had ABS on the 1100. It was a panic stop when the car in front of me slammed on her brakes to stop short for a stop light. I was on the brakes as hard as I could and not stopping quick enough. Through training, (MSF and other courses) I identified that I wouldn't be able to stop in time. I identified an escape route (splitting traffic), released the brakes, swerved, reapplied brakes. Now these were dry roads and ABS may have extended the braking distance but I wouldn't have had to release to make the maneuver so in the end it may have been about equal. I also recall when braking, that I knew I could squeeze a little more but didn't out of concern about locking the front wheel. I would have squeezed the brake on an ABS bike to the bar and let the computer do its thing.
 
sennister said:
Now these were dry roads and ABS may have extended the braking distance but I wouldn't have had to release to make the maneuver so in the end it may have been about equal.
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I don't think this is true. Maybe others could chime in with their thoughts but this is what I mean:

When a bike is on the sides of the tires (cornering, swerving) the force is sideways, not front to back. ABS does not sense the tires sliding out from under you, when going sideways, because the tire is still turning....

It's my opinion anyway, that there's a misconception, or misunderstanding with ABS and bikes. It's not the same as ABS with a car... because you don't have to balance a car (ie, you don't ride on the sides of the tires of a car)...

just my .03 anyway (inflation ;))
 
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