Are you kidding me IgoFar

[Terminator2]

September 2, 2023.....I phone IGoFar to cheer him up(?). Surprised to hear that he is waiting for a hospital room. We chat this and that. We momentarily discuss alternator possibilities since my bike is about to kick off the 90k season. I wish him well and...........

September 9, 2023 (Saturday).....I've been sick for 5 days (making progress), when I decide to take a 40mile romp. Nearing the six block mark before home, my ABs Light flashes (huh?). I pull over to assess the situation at Jack n the Box........Turn off engine, turn on engine, nope- insufficient cranking power (huh?). Battery has 12k on it. Previous battery has 19k and works. Since when does flashing ABs light and 12.2volts hold hands? hmmm.....A kind citizen provides a jump, I had pulled headlight fuses, and I notice my alternator isn't providing ANY charging power. Ride home like your life depends on it because of course I just bought refrigerator required groceries. Are you kidding me? IGoFar and I just discussed this potential situation. Am I a fortune teller now?

September 10, 2023.....Troubleshoot day! Yay! Not........... Fully charged both batteries I own. Research work in progress. I have no farkles. Don't these alternators last longer than this?

Question #1....Why is there a black/white wire from alternator to Kill switch on right handlebar? (Service Manual 2003-2010 page #19-2)
Question #2....Anyone know easiest access to alternator electrical connectors for tests?

Pic #1 Bike parked on Ridge above Stumpy Meadows Lake Reservoir-El Dorado County Calif
Pic #2 Nearing Loon Lake (Desolation Wilderness)-El Dorado County Calif
Pic #3 The only time a Lake Tahoe storm at Loon Lake ever halted before me

 

[jfheath]

The b/w lead through the run/stop switch is part of a small circuit through the bank angle sensor and the bank angle relay. The relay turns on power to many of the components that make the engine run eg coils, injectors, fuel pump, ....

In this way the engine can be made safe (no power) by using the red switch, or by dropping the bike.

A diagram can be seen in this post:

Article [13] - ST1300 - Fuel Pump Circuit - Fault Diagnosis | ST1300 Articles

An invaluable aid to the identification of electrical faults which result in the fuel pump not working on the ST1300. If you think that you cannot read an electrical circuit, try this. It takes you by the hand and leads you through the diagrams one step at a time. The Fuel Pump Circuit...

www.st-owners.com

The b/w lead to the red switch actually comes from the fuse box, which in turn is fed from the main ignition switch.

The lead from the alternator is tapped into the b/w from the fuse box. I don't know enough about this, but I cant see why rectified voltage from the regulator would be feeding power into the line going from the fuse box to the red switch. I wonder if it is flowing the other way - eg providing a reference voltage for the regulator ???

Whatever, it is of no consequence until the engine is running..

 

[DannoXYZ]

Question #1....Why is there a black/white wire from alternator to Kill switch on right handlebar? (Service Manual 2003-2010 page #19-2)

It's not FROM alternator TO kill-switch. It's FROM fuse-D TO kill-switch input AND alternator's regulator input at same time. Alternator-output is actually red/wht wire. It's like light-switch turning ON two light-bulbs at once with Y-split or T-junction. DC flows from power-source to device to ground. In this case, power-source is battery which powers ignition-switch then fuse-D.

Then fuse-D supplies power to BOTH kill-switch input and regulator input on wht/blk wire. Output of kill-switch is actually black wire that feeds bank angle sensor relay. Other branch of fuse-D wht/blk wire is INPUT to regulator.

The b/w lead through the run/stop switch is part of a small circuit through the bank angle sensor and the bank angle relay. The relay turns on power to many of the components that make the engine run eg coils, injectors, fuel pump, ....

In this way the engine can be made safe (no power) by using the red switch, or by dropping the bike.

A diagram can be seen in this post:

Article [13] - ST1300 - Fuel Pump Circuit - Fault Diagnosis | ST1300 Articles

An invaluable aid to the identification of electrical faults which result in the fuel pump not working on the ST1300. If you think that you cannot read an electrical circuit, try this. It takes you by the hand and leads you through the diagrams one step at a time. The Fuel Pump Circuit...

www.st-owners.com

The b/w lead to the red switch actually comes from the fuse box, which in turn is fed from the main ignition switch.

The lead from the alternator is tapped into the b/w from the fuse box. I don't know enough about this, but I cant see why rectified voltage from the regulator would be feeding power into the line going from the fuse box to the red switch. I wonder if it is flowing the other way - eg providing a reference voltage for the regulator ???

Whatever, it is of no consequence until the engine is running..

Yes, is ref-voltage feedback from fuse-D so regulator can adjust field-windings to vary output to maintain steady voltage.

 

[Terminator2]

Thank you JFHeath and Danno, for your input. Does anyone know common reasons for ST alternator fails? If required, purchase options that don't include loans from Dubai? heh

 

[jfheath]

Yes, is ref-voltage feedback from fuse-D so regulator can adjust field-windings to vary output to maintain steady voltage.

Thanks @DannoXYZ . That had to be the best option, but I hadn't got a clue as to what it did or how it did it. Flowing the other way made no sense at all to me.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Thank you JFHeath and Danno, for your input. Does anyone know common reasons for ST alternator fails? If required, purchase options that don't include loans from Dubai? heh

Cause & Effect? From what I can gather, symptoms/effects are brushes and slip-rings wear out. Not easily replaced, and if you get donor alternator with these good parts in them, might as well use that donor as replacement.

This is ND alternator similar to what's used on many Japanese autos. Brushes are not replaceable without disassembling. Unlike Bosch alternators where brushes can be easily replaced since VRM module is external (see photo below).

I suspect cause of these issues is heat due to location of alternator inside V. Similar issues with many Toyotas that kill these alternators in 60-100K-miles on regular basis. Some Toyota engineer put alternator above or next to headers and alternator's fan-blades actually pull hot air INTO alternator from above headers! This of course, cooks electronics (kills diodes) and make soft copper on slip-rings wear out faster. Solutions include adding heat-shield between alternator and header along with reversing fan to blow cooler air from pulley side into alternator. With these mods, alternators last forever, many have 400K-miles+.

Possible solutions:

1. find ND alternator from auto that may be bolt-on replacement, not likely without lots of trial & error scouring junkyards and measuring. May be bonus upgrade as ND auto alternators start at 55a output. Many Porsche owners actually use Toyota/Nissan ND alternators since they're 1/2 size of Bosch units. Frees up valuable space around engine for BIGGER TURBOS!!!

2. finding replacement parts from ND catalogue, might be possible.



3. cooling solutions for alternator... gold-foil heat wrap? liquid-cooling? Peltier coolers? Adding PC CPU-fans to RR on VFR was common solution in early days.


Bosch alternator with easily replaced VRM module with new brushes.

 

[dduelin]

Mine failed at 116,000 miles. The rotor tested open circuit, I guess that is a broken wire in the rotor windings. The rotor was available from Honda as were the individual component parts. I elected to purchase new OEM rather than rebuild it. It appears Honda still has component parts available.

 

[Terminator2]

Mine failed at 116,000 miles. The rotor tested open circuit, I guess that is a broken wire in the rotor windings. The rotor was available from Honda as were the individual component parts. I elected to purchase new OEM rather than rebuild it. It appears Honda still has component parts available.

dduelin. May I ask what year your ST1300 was?

 

[dduelin]

dduelin. May I ask what year your ST1300 was?

2005.

 

[SupraSabre]

My 2005 ST1300 alternator went out around 60K (? - it's been awhile and I sold the bike to my son 10 years ago and I gave him the maintenance records. so I don't remember the exact mileage.)

Because I "was" commuting 125 miles a day, I started hording parts when I found them on eBay for a reasonable price. Of course by now, some of these parts are getting harder/more expensive.

And of course, to replace the alternator, you have to dig deep in the valley, to get to it.

Keep us informed on your progress.

 

[Terminator2]

Update!......What a beautiful blue sky day today (Wednesday). Removed plastic, radiator, thermostat house. Koeo, 12volts at alternator reference connector. Koer, only 12volts leaving alternator at exit nut. So, I am blown away that such an expensive part on the ST only lasts 90k without farkles. Considering my options. Let me check the money tree. $800 for an alternator? My first car didn't cost that. Any input appreciated. Have a great day everyone! Especially you, Larry

 

[970mike]

Update!......What a beautiful blue sky day today (Wednesday). Removed plastic, radiator, thermostat house. Koeo, 12volts at alternator reference connector. Koer, only 12volts leaving alternator at exit nut. So, I am blown away that such an expensive part on the ST only lasts 90k without farkles. Considering my options. Let me check the money tree. $800 for an alternator? My first car didn't cost that. Any input appreciated. Have a great day everyone! Especially you, Larry

$637.08 with free shipping and no sales tax from here https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053f133f870021c54be64a5/alternator

 

[wizel]

In Europe, at least twice that in dollars!
greetings from germany
holm

 

[wizel]

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-st1300a-paneuropean-2008-8-european-direct-salesabs_model21290/partslist/E__1100.html

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Yes, is ref-voltage feedback from fuse-D so regulator can adjust field-windings to vary output to maintain steady voltage.

It also provides the current from the battery that is needed to create the initial electro-magnetic field that is required before the alternator can begin producing electricity.

 

[Cogmeister]

From Honda in Ipswich UK
Hope you're sitting down

Parts Finder – lings-hondaparts (hondaspareparts.co.uk)

Can you get the original rebuilt?
Or buy a second hand one to fit whilst the original is rebuilt?

 

[ST1100Y]

$800 for an alternator? My first car didn't cost that. Any input appreciated.

Either rebuild your unit, or check eBay for a good looking, low mileage used one...

 

[DannoXYZ]

You actually don't have to replace entire thing. Why not do some measuring and testing to see what failed? As mentioned earlier, there was broken wire in windings of one. All internal parts available for repairing.

There's also option of someone else doing testing and repairing for you.

Rebuilt Honda Alternator 30_107

Rebuilt Honda Alternator

ricksmotorsportelectrics.com