Driveshaft lubrication confusion

ladder106

ladder106

Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
43
Location
Davis, CA
Bike
97 ST1100
I've done quite a bit of study over the past few weeks on the ST and have the new-to-me 1997 down for complete service and testing.

So far I've done valves and plugs, replaced thermostat and rad. cap, tightened a few coolant hose-clamps, replaced coolant, replaced oil and filter. Re-greased brake caliper sliders and installed new pads. Replaced the headset bearings with tapered rollers and replaced fork oil.

I'm now removing the swingarm and rear drive and drive shaft for cleaning and re-greasing........

......and now I'm confused.

I've got official Honda Moly Paste and I understand perfectly that it has to be used on the rear splines. I'm referring to the splines that are visible when all you do is remove the rear wheel. This is easy and obvious.

I also understand that Moly Paste is to be used on the splines where the drive shaft joins the transmission output shaft up by the rubber boot on the pivoting end of the swingarm.

BUT.....

When I removed the rear ring-and-pinion drive from the drive shaft I'm left looking at these parts:

IMG_0402_zps8b930f4f.jpg IMG_0404_zpsd77fab02.jpg

Now the articles I've read state that the inner "cup" area in the left photo (ring and pinion housing) must be sealed with 3% moly grease. This is to seal the two small holes (seen at 3 and 9 o'clock in the photo). If this isn't done, gear oil will leak through. OK...good enough.

So, does this mean that the splines shown in the right photo are ALSO lubed with 3% Moly
.....or.....
Is Moly PASTE used on the splines and 3% Moly only used in the deep part of the cup down by the large nut to seal the holes.

Is seems odd that Moly PASTE is used on all the large splines EXCEPT for these where 3% is used.
It also seems odd to use both Moly 3% grease AND Moly PASTE in the same assembly.

Which method is correct?

Last but not least, what is the correct lube to use in the smaller splines on the part in the right photo? You can't see the splines in the photo but they are at the bottom of the part and are where this part joins the dive shaft. The manual seems to show that this is also 3% Moly grease. Is this correct?

I'll re-read it all again tonight but was hoping that showing a few photos would help someone explain it more clearly.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
Short answer: yes to all the 3% moly questions. Per the manual. I think the rationale is there is some sliding of the surfaces which calls for grease vs high moly content 'paste.'

John
 
Thanks for the assist, John.

Just to confirm, everything in the two photos gets lubed with 3% Moly, correct? Including the smaller splines not shown at the bottom of the right photo.

I finally found grease that actually states it's 3% Moly. It's a Caterpillar Tractor part. Was in stock at the local dealer at about $8.00 a tube.

http://parts.cat.com/cda/files/3056001/7/PEHP0002-02.pdf
 
I believe any moly GREASE will meet the 3% spec. And I recall reading (somewhere on this Forum, I think ) that the 3% spec for those splines was in error and that the PASTE should be used on all splines.
 
@ ladder - yes, 3% moly grease on all those parts. [do you have a first name we can address you by? Thanks]

@ Jim - the Honda Service Manual error you mentioned is about the final drive/driven flange [schematic lubrication symbol, M vs MP], not the drive shaft/joint/pinion cup.

Regards, John
 
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John,

I'm Ray. Apologies for the lack of introduction or signature on the posts.

Different forums have different rules. Still learning here.
 
I believe any moly GREASE will meet the 3% spec.
Click to expand...

Jim,

I found some interesting things while looking at greases (looked at a LOT of them).

Most greases that use "MOLY" in the name do not specify the percentage of Molybdenum used.....either on the side of the container or on their web sites.

I actually found 2 or 3 brands of "Moly" grease that did NOT have Molybdenum even listed as one of the ingredients of the product (dunno what that means but it seems suspect).

I felt comfortable with the Caterpillar stuff since 3% was clearly listed and some of their service manuals are as specific as Honda is when it comes to lubrication.

Since yanking the swingarm is not something I plan on doing too often on the ST (it's a yearly thing with my DS bikes), I wanted to make absolutely certain I was using the correct grease and applying it in the correct places.

Since I'm new to the ST, I truly appreciate the assistance.

Ray
 
Some more info on grease:

My FSM specifically calls out this type of grease:

Molykote? BR-2 Plus

I use it....seems to work great! My splines look almost virginal...


More interestingly, I was able to source this stuff locally:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/221-moly-ultra.html

It's the only true waterproof moly grease I've been able to find. I've not yet used it on my ST (see my signature block), however.
 
Digger1 said:
Some more info on grease:

My FSM specifically calls out this type of grease:

Molykote? BR-2 Plus

I use it....seems to work great! My splines look almost virginal...
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, the Honda Service manual identifies Molykote BR-2 plus grease for those places where moly grease is spec'd: the "M" lube icon (>3% moly). There are only two places that I know of: the left front brake caliper bracket needle bearing, and the driveshaft/driveshaft-joint/pinion-joint splines.

For the "MP" lube icon (>40% moly), the manual identifies Molykote G-n Paste, for the final drive and driven flange splines, and thrust washer.

BTW, chapter 1 has a "Lubrication & Seal Points" section also.

Regards, John
 
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Lots got done today thanks to you guys.

Cleaned all the crud off the swingarm and gave it a coat of wax (for protection mind...not the I'm OCD or anything).

Cleaned and relubed the swingarm bearings, cleaned all driveshaft splines, relubed with the correct grease in the correct places. Then reassembled the swingarm.

I discovered that the driveshaft isn't too eager to slip back onto the output shaft splines until you tilt the swingarm up just past horizontal. Did a lot of pushing and spinning until the light-bulb went on. Raised the arm and "click" on she went. Shoulda thought of that sooner.

Got the silencers, battery box, aluminium plates holding the footpegs all cleaned and polished up and reinstalled.

The rear wheel goes on tomorrow along with tightening the swingarm to correct specs and then doing the alignment thing with the driveshaft, rear wheel and rear drive bolts.

Getting closer to riding this thing again.
 
Glad to hear you are going to align the rear end... I had just had a notion that you might not know how important it is to your splines to mount the rear wheel and then do the final alignment.

Mark
 
Thanks for the reminder Mark,

I've read that bit. It appears that you leave the 4 bolts that mount the final drive to the shaft "finger tight", tighten and properly torque the swingarm, then lube rear drive splines and mount the rear wheel, torque rear axle, rear caliper mount and left side axle pinch bolt........

Give everything a spin with the bike in neutral and then finally tighten and torque the 4 final drive mounting bolts.

Does that sound correct?

I'll be doing that this afternoon..............

.............and then the 3 dimensional jig-saw puzzle of putting all the cleaned and polished plastics back together.

I'm having fun so far. I've repaired one broken bolt at the bottom of the battery box and have not (knock wood) broken anything myself so far. I should have improved an already excellent bike.

Can't wait to ride it again.

Other than rear drive splines, how long do you guys plan to ride between pulling the swingarm and servicing the front splines?

Ray
 
That sounds like the right technique.

I left mine until the universal joint failed; so, I guess I waited too long... :(
I don't know what could have been done to the universal anyway...
 
Digger1 said:
Some more info on grease:

My FSM specifically calls out this type of grease:

Molykote? BR-2 Plus

I use it....seems to work great! My splines look almost virginal...
Click to expand...





John OoSTerhuis said:
Just to be clear, the Honda Service manual identifies Molykote BR-2 plus grease for those places where moly grease is spec'd: the "M" lube icon (>3% moly). There are only two places that I know of: the left front brake caliper bracket needle bearing, and the driveshaft/driveshaft-joint/pinion-joint splines.

For the "MP" lube icon (>40% moly), the manual identifies Molykote G-n Paste, for the final drive and driven flange splines, and thrust washer.

BTW, chapter 1 has a "Lubrication & Seal Points" section also.

Regards, John
Click to expand...


Whoops! :eek::

Good catch, John!

I do, of course, use the recommended moly paste on my final drive splines (or, I doubt they'd be looking so virginal)!
 
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