From a 93 ST1100 to a 2024 BMW R1250RT. Some observations...

IndyRob

IndyRob

Joined
Oct 6, 2022
Messages
74
Age
58
Location
Indianapolis
Bike
93 ST1100
So, hopefully, 31 years of technology improvements (?) is a good thing. Recently sold my trusty 93 ST1100 to a fellow STOC member here after my new BMW arrived from the factory. Rode both of them back to back over 100 miles and, while it was very hard to part with my trusty STeed, I must say that the new tech is pretty nice (at a pretty good price too). The adaptive cruise control on the RT is freakin' amazing...works better than any system I have had in my cars! Heated seats and bars are new to me too... I'm sure they will be handy come fall/spring riding. The 10.25" TFT display is also wonderful. At first I was pretty intimidated about figuring out how this whole "scroll wheel" BMW thing works, but after very few miles it turns out it's quite intuitive once you learn it. XM radio + HD FM also pretty nice straight from the bike. Suspension is AMAZING with 4 different ride modes that adapt it and braking/throttle response. All LED adaptive lights are incredible at night. The boxer engine is way different than the V4 but sure has a lot of "personality" and can lift the front tire at will if you get on the second cam above 6K rpms. Hang on!!

Now, the 600 mile service (basically an oil and rear-end fluid change plus a bunch of "checks" and software update to the ECU) was expensive at $447. BMW holds their tech data tight so probably the end to wrenching on my own bike, which had NO computers..... hoping I do not wish for the "old simple days of carbs and simple shocks". Time will tell....
"
 
You'll enjoy this new ride, congratulations.

I sort of went that way too except I kept the 1300. And my 2022 1250 does away with much of the fairing and bodywork.

Find yourself a GS-911, and save some shop time and shop $$$.

Jim von Baden and his videos will help with routine chores and maintenance.

The newer 1250s do have some get up and go, eh?
 
Wait til you have to replace driveshafts every 36,000 miles! Not sure what that's all about because I know of many high mile bikes without issues. Regardless enjoy the new ride I'm sure it's a great bike.
 
Donk said:
Wait til you have to replace driveshafts every 36,000 miles! Not sure what that's all about because I know of many high mile bikes without issues. Regardless enjoy the new ride I'm sure it's a great bike.
Click to expand...
Yes that was an issue a few years ago.... BMW has apparently since fixed that and from what I have read online they covered replacements under a "silent warranty".
 
The shaft replacement IS covered under warranty, for certain model years, including my 2022.

It somewhat baffles me how, after decades of mass producing these steel bars that have lasted hundreds of thousands of miles, in thousands of bikes, that at this modern time they feel they have to replace them so often.

Sure, many riders don't keep any bike that long in actuality, but still... Yet another reason to always have two running bikes. I would guesstimate my local dealer would hold my GSA 2 - 3 weeks or longer to perform the swap, and they won't even order the parts if you don't leave the bike with them. I think that's criminally absurd.

See? Even at my age I can still be surprised.

I'm glad I kept the 1300.
 
Sadlsor said:
It somewhat baffles me how, after decades of mass producing these steel bars that have lasted hundreds of thousands of miles, in thousands of bikes, that at this modern time they feel they have to replace them so often.
Click to expand...
Probably less of a technical know-how issue than it is a cost cutting measure that didn't work out as planned.

I read an article a little while ago that pertains to the automobile industry but I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is happening in the motorcycle industry. The gist of the article was that because the single biggest thing driving the decision behind most automobile purchases is price, the manufacturers are doing everything that they can to keep a lid on price increases despite the rapid increase of everything they purchase to make the vehicle. To do this they are taking all of the manufacturing limits to the minimum. If it use to be 3/32" sheet metal and they can get away with cheaper 1/16" they change it. If the radiator capacity can be reduced by XX % and still maintain the engine temperature within acceptable limits it gets shrunk because a smaller radiator is a cheaper radiator. Anything that is metal that can be changed to cheaper plastic gets changed to plastic. Etc., etc., etc..

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that BWM redesigned their drive lines and changed something to reduce the manufacturing cost, and the engineering didn't break their way on it.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Probably less of a technical know-how issue than it is a cost cutting measure that didn't work out as planned.

I read an article a little while ago that pertains to the automobile industry but I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is happening in the motorcycle industry. The gist of the article was that because the single biggest thing driving the decision behind most automobile purchases is price, the manufacturers are doing everything that they can to keep a lid on price increases despite the rapid increase of everything they purchase to make the vehicle. To do this they are taking all of the manufacturing limits to the minimum. If it use to be 3/32" sheet metal and they can get away with cheaper 1/16" they change it. If the radiator capacity can be reduced by XX % and still maintain the engine temperature within acceptable limits it gets shrunk because a smaller radiator is a cheaper radiator. Anything that is metal that can be changed to cheaper plastic gets changed to plastic. Etc., etc., etc..

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that BWM redesigned their drive lines and changed something to reduce the manufacturing cost, and the engineering didn't break their way on it.
Click to expand...
Congratulations on your new motorcycle. There’s special sauce behind the Bavarian Roundel!



The need to reduce weight is also largely driven by requirements to meet Corporate Fuel Economy Standards that have risen sharply in the last two decades.

The current litigation happy society we live underlies BMWs 36,000 mile driveshaft replacement under warranty. It's simply cheaper to stockpile $225 driveshafts and give them to owners at fixed mileage periods rather than risk giving a jury a 50 or 100 million dollar lawsuit today. Bikes produced 20 or 30 years ago would have similar risk contingencies in place today IMO. The 2005 wobble/weave accident that killed a law enforcement officer on his ST1300 caused Honda great financial harm. That and the 1300s later reputation for weaving at high speeds almost certainly dimmed the model's future sales both in the authority and civilian markets. Now that we have years of empirical data it's not unusual for the 1300 to require a driveshaft replacement <125,000 miles and there's not that many STs circulating compared to BMW touring or sport touring models in continuous production since 1977.
 
Last edited:
dduelin said:
The need to reduce weight is also largely driven by requirements to meet Corporate Fuel Economy Standards that have risen sharply in the last two decades.
<SNIP>
Click to expand...

I think you make some very relevant and sensible points, Dave.
Guess I just don't feel much like thinking all that hard... but it's certainly a fact that the ever-evolving Euro xxx emissions requirements have necessitated many changes in the global ICE world.
That's also one reason the parallel twin engines are so prevalent these days in so many new bikes. Several moto-podcasts discuss this.
 
Well, gosh I would hope that there's been some advancements in the 31 years between the two. I don't begrudge your upgrade, and I'm sure you'll like it and will do you well. As long as you're still riding!
 
There's still in my mind a nagging cloud of doubt (skepticism?) and uncertainty relating to the longevity of all the danged "rider aid" electronics so pervasive in the new machines, especially considering the general cost of BMW parts.

I know, I know, all the manufacturers are on board with them.

I'm still keeping an extended warranty in force, something I rarely, rarely purchase.

Time will tell...
 
Sadlsor said:
There's still in my mind a nagging cloud of doubt (skepticism?) and uncertainty relating to the longevity of all the danged "rider aid" electronics so pervasive in the new machines, especially considering the general cost of BMW parts.

I know, I know, all the manufacturers are on board with them.

I'm still keeping an extended warranty in force, something I rarely, rarely purchase.

Time will tell...
Click to expand...
I see enough issues with screens going haywire or completely dead in cars. To think of the engineering needed for them to survive out in the open weather and sun just makes me even more leery. I, being the son of a pilot, also take homage to good ol' analog gauges. Electronic maps and virtual gauges are great, but a glitch or failure somewhere will wipe out all that visual info leaving you blind...granted not as critical riding versus flying. GPS on a bike is truly a godsend though, I hated riding relying a old-foldy map or worse my noggin!

Heck, just seeing the problems with the LCD screen on the ST1300 (along with the FI problems) has kept me from moving up to the newer brethren. Carbs be damned, I'll stick with my trusty and simplistic ST1100.
 
Last edited:
No doubt your new BMW RT1250 will amaze you with all of the features and technology one could want. Its always fun and exciting new aquire a new stead . You will also be amazed by the cost of mainteance compared to your old ST1100....no comparision of the two your old St1100 wins that contest. I had a RT1250 on my radar if I my ST1100 ever failed but Im liking the FJR 1300 a little better as I feel It should require less wallet breaking maintenace bills than an RT 1250. Plus I should be able to so more stuff myself on the FJR 1300 than the RT1250. I have heard that there is a recall on the newer RTs on the driveshafts if so not good. Still I know you will find your ride an amazing machine. May you have many many happy miles with it:)
 
I do all the service on my 21 RT, hasn't been back to the dealer. 21k on it now. Valves in spec. I had an st1300 with a failed joint at 50k so may check and replace the bmw shaft at the 48k service. Treating it just like I would a honda product.
 
Sadlsor said:
There's still in my mind a nagging cloud of doubt (skepticism?) and uncertainty relating to the longevity of all the danged "rider aid" electronics so pervasive in the new machines, especially considering the general cost of BMW parts.

I know, I know, all the manufacturers are on board with them.

I'm still keeping an extended warranty in force, something I rarely, rarely purchase.

Time will tell...
Click to expand...
Yep I did spring for the 7 year BMW warranty at another $1200... figured if it's in the shop anytime for more than about 4 hours I'll get my money back.
 
jdmccright said:
Well, gosh I would hope that there's been some advancements in the 31 years between the two. I don't begrudge your upgrade, and I'm sure you'll like it and will do you well. As long as you're still riding!
Click to expand...
Thanks! The ST sets the bar pretty damn high for reliability and ease of maintenance... plus performance, comfort, style, shall I go on?? :)
 
Sadlsor said:
There's still in my mind a nagging cloud of doubt (skepticism?) and uncertainty relating to the longevity of all the danged "rider aid" electronics so pervasive in the new machines, especially considering the general cost of BMW parts.

I know, I know, all the manufacturers are on board with them.

I'm still keeping an extended warranty in force, something I rarely, rarely purchase.

Time will tell...
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the constant requirement for weight loss/fuel economy coupled with the rider aids can cause problems as they shrink copper to the size of telephone wiring and smaller. I had a 17 GSA that gave me fits, dropping to one cylinder at random times and always set the same error code. The dealer was working hard to remedy it (under warranty) but sadly their hands were tied by BMW corporate who wanted small attempts at repair before giving the bike back to me, instead of replacing the harness like the shop wanted to do. After 6 or 7 trips to the shop (150 miles away), it finally cut out on me as I was merging into heavy traffic. I ended my ownership of that bike the next day. In all other aspects it was a great bike and I hated to see it go, I simply couldn't trust it.
 
jdmccright said:
Well, gosh I would hope that there's been some advancements in the 31 years between the two. I don't begrudge your upgrade, and I'm sure you'll like it and will do you well. As long as you're still riding!
Click to expand...
Definitely still riding! That was the whole point of buying a newer bike... so I could go out on farther adventures and know that all the parts under my crotch are not 32 years old... (ok, keep it clean here!!).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom