New Clutch - "Clunk" on first selection

Joined
Sep 6, 2009
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Wolverhampton UK
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ST1300
I had a new clutch and slave cylinder seals fitted recently (external garage) on my 2005 Pan (Mileage - 65,000) and am now finding that when starting from cold there's an almighty "clunk" that sometimes stalls the bike.
Subsequent gear changes are no issue.
I rarely wait for the engine to warm up before moving off.
Could this be a contributing factor?

Ideas and suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks guys.
 

diferg

Dan & Ingrid
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st marys, ga
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My 06 (bought new with just a few miles on odometer (14 miles comes to mind) has always had a healthy "clunk" when going from neutral to first gear immediately after start up and engine and gear box cold.
 
Joined
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Murcia, Spain
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Honda ST1300 Pan-Eur
My 06 (bought new with just a few miles on odometer (14 miles comes to mind) has always had a healthy "clunk" when going from neutral to first gear immediately after start up and engine and gear box cold.
Yes. Every bike I have owned tended to clunk from neutral to first.
 
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soforene
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Wolverhampton UK
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ST1300
Pull the clutch lever as you start the engine and 1st gear engagement should become easier. The clutch plates were steeped in oil before assembly- yes/no?
I always pull the clutch before starting. I read somewhere (back in the mists of time) that it makes it easier to turn over rthe engine.
May be true but some things just stick with you.

My 06 (bought new with just a few miles on odometer (14 miles comes to mind) has always had a healthy "clunk" when going from neutral to first gear immediately after start up and engine and gear box cold.
I've always had a clunk at this point (even with the old clutch) and accepted it as a quirk of the ST but never severe enough to stall it.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

 

Slydynbye

Will ride for Pie
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I had a new clutch and slave cylinder seals fitted recently (external garage) on my 2005 Pan (Mileage - 65,000) and am now finding that when starting from cold there's an almighty "clunk" that sometimes stalls the bike.
Subsequent gear changes are no issue.
I rarely wait for the engine to warm up before moving off.
Could this be a contributing factor?

Ideas and suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks guys.
Check idle speed too high? If you move off too soon has the idle speed settled lower or is it still at high idle?
 
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kankakee
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R1200rt
Yea it should not stall the engine. Why was the clutch/slave replaced? Where does the clutch lever start grabbing warmed up? What comes to my mind is rebleed the clutch and inspect the clutch piviot (sometimes a problem.)
 
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soforene
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ST1300
... Why was the clutch/slave replaced?....
I thought I had burnt the clutch out when (as I later learned) the Thermal valve sent the tickover to 4,000 RPM in heavy slow traffic and I couldn't pull over or filter.
When the mechanic stripped the bike he said the clutch was fine (he mentioned ST1300 clutches are usually good for about 120K) but as he'd already bought a new clutch he installed it and the issue was most likely the slave cylinder which he resealed.
I've had a few suggestions about corrective action to try and will report back on any success (fingers crossed) when I try them.
 

Mr.E

Steve
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Probably not a good idea to ride off with a cold engine, a few minutes spent warming up to fill the oilways and lube the bores etc. is time well spent.

All bikes and car engines should always be allowed to stand for a short time on tick over, I went to look at a Z1300 - 6 cyl many years ago and the owner fired up from cold and gave it handfulls of throttle... I walked away almost immediately from a potentially wrecked bike!
 
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soforene
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To be clear this initial"clunk" happens after the engine tickover has achieved the optimum <1,000 rpm speed.
I have learnt over the years to have "empathy" with any equipment I use whether it be cars, motorcycles or anything mechanical.
This ain't my first Rodeo.

Well, I've never been to a Rodeo so the next would be my first but you get the gist..... :p
 
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Gus1300

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You state that the mechanic 'resealed' the slave cylinder...was it leaking? Nevermind, I went back and read your statement close: I had a new clutch and slave cylinder seals fitted recently

Mine, when I replaced it but it wasn't really the problem I was having, nor leaking, was full of gunk from poor flushing in the early years before I owned the bike, and possibly poor technique after. If he didn't look inside it, what did he use to reseal it vs removing it, cleaning off the mating surfaces, inspecting it and either replacing it with a new gasket or reinstalling it the correct way, also with a new gasket vs 'resealing' it? (this may have all happened based on your statement that you had new seals fitted)

My ride 'clunks' differently, but I have noticed that if I try to shift from neutral quickly after pulling in the clutch without allowing the transmission time to stop spinning, the engagement is way more 'robust' as the gear dogs engage than if I let it slow for a few seconds first. See if you can characterize something along those lines for your listed behavior and maybe that will help narrow down what the issue is. If the secondary cylinder or the lever aren't fully disengaging the transmission, then it's still spinning when shifting, which will cause a harder shift, neutral to first or otherwise. Once the gears are engaged, the mass of the stationary bike is enough to then cause the clutch discs to slip and you'll likely feel it as a little pressure against your stopped position.

Have you pulled the clutch lever to look at the brass bushing inside to see if it's worn and limiting the master cylinder piston travel? I have a good example of that too (the bushing had a hole worn completely through!) as one of my experiences. Pretty easy to check that first and rule it in or out as being contributory to the problem.
 
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mjc506

Matt
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I usually leave my bike in gear when parked, so start it in first (get on the bike, ignition on, sidestand up, front brake on, clutch pulled, thumb the starter), so no neutral-first clunk for me :)

That said, on the odd occasion I do shift from neutral to first at a standstill, there was definitely a significant clunk. This diminished a lot after servicing the cush rubbers in the rear hub - less backlash overall.

Stalling the engine isn't good - suggests the clutch isn't being fully disengaged. It could just need a bit of use, you could have lever problems, or the system could need another bleed...
 
Joined
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Savannah, GA
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Okay, I don't want to hijack this thread; but I'm having similar issues. I bled the clutch right after purchase and have always had a decent clunk (no stall). Then a few days ago I started experimenting with pulling the clutch all the way to the grip = little to no clunk? OKay? However, pulling it all the way to the grip while rolling and downshifting sometimes makes the gears grind. Grinding gears scares me a tad. So I continue to experiment with proper clutch technique. I'm running Amsoil 10W40 motorcycle oil currently, in case that makes a difference. I've cleaned and inspected the pivot bushings in the clutch lever and didn't see any wear. I can look again though. 2006ST w/ABS that has about 47,000 miles.
 
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soforene
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Update:
I bled the clutch again but it made no difference.
It's an interesting side note re: the type of oil used as I have been advised that, due to having a new clutch and oil change, the clutch plates may "suck" together when the oil cools causing them to stick together until the first selection on start up dislodges then.
Sounds feasible to me so I'm wondering if the correct oil was used in the shop and whether a lower viscosity oil may be an option to try.
 
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Joined
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I don’t understand the banjo bolt reference. Isn’t disconnecting the banjo bolt necessitate another bleed? I just open the reservoir and the bleed nipple.
 
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soforene
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I don’t understand the banjo bolt reference...
My apologies.
I have amended my post so as not to send any future readers down the wrong path.

Moving on.....
When checking my oil level today I discovered that it was overfilledby almost 1/2 a litre.
I suppose that the garage I had the clutch work done at gave me good value by giving me extra oil ( :rolleyes:) but I've drained it to the correct level.
I wonder if the cLunky initial gear selection could have been caused because the clutch plates were sitting in oil at rest.
Something to check on my next rideout.
 
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ST Gui

240Robert
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I have been advised that, due to having a new clutch and oil change, the clutch plates may "suck" together when the oil cools causing them to stick together until the first selection on start up dislodges then.
When the clutch is released all the plates will be compressed by the springs. So when the bike is parked and the oil cools sufficiently the plates will have some "stiction". It might be less with fully synthetic oil.

The only clutch I've even rebuilt was that on my old 305 Honda Scrambler (CL77). I put the clutch plates (not the spacers) in a bath of fresh oil the night before assembly. That may be urban myth but that's what a wrench told me to do. The clutch was assembled with each spacer getting a quick dip as well.

The clutch felt the same with no "broken-in" feeling down the road. It just worked like was supposed to. But there was always a slight clunk when shifting from Neutral to 1st and it was slightly greater when the engine was cold.

This has been my experience with every Honda since. With the engine warmed in gear with the clutch in walking the bikes backward has always had some slight resistance not present with the engine off due to the oil viscosity.

I've never noticed any difference between a new clutch and a "broken-in" clutch but that may be a nuance beyond my skill level to appreciate.
 
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Cleveland
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A couple of comments. My service manual simply says to coat the clutch plates in clean engine oil before stacking them in the basket. It does not say to soak them for 40 days and 40 nights or any period of time. Since this is a wet clutch, oil continually bathes the clutch plates and every time you shift they separate and will be coated with oil. Using the wrong oil - i.e. energy conserving oil causes them to slip, not stick so this is probably not your problem. I do not understand why so many guys here insist on improving on Honda's oil recommendations (ok, cost is one, but I thought bikes were an expensive hobby). If you are using a good (name brand) motorcycle oil of the recommended viscosity, move on, oil is probably not the issue.

I remember reading somewhere (owners manual, likely) to let the engine run to one bar before riding off. I doubt the clutch gets warm enough in those few minutes for this to be the cause of your problem. It sounds like your clutch is not releasing from a cold engine. You might try putting the cold bike in gear, pulling in the clutch, and pushing it across your driveway or garage. I've always been able to do that - with my Guzzi (ok, dry clutch), Triumph, ST1300, and VStrom. If you cannot, the clutch is not releasing, and if we assume your mechanic did not do something wrong with the clutch plates, then the problem would have to be w/ the clutch master or slave cylinders.
 
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