ST 1100 ABS/CBS brakes

[Stan ST]

Hi there ST owners. I would like to ask those who have an experience or a information related with ASB as well as CBS braking system on ST 1100 1996.

The brakes on my bike started to be a kind of sticky. I tried to solve the problem by pushing the pistons out by pedal or lever as much as possible (clippers taken off the bike and braking pads out too). After that I have used some inappropriate (some VB40 a copy of a WD40) to wash the pistons and to grease them.... And that was a huge mistake...
I have destroyed the piston seals. They become swollen, so the brakes started to be even more sticky....
I have ordered a new hydraulic seals and dust seals for all nine pistons from WEMOTO and now I am waiting.

However, during my struggle with brakes I changed a brake fluid by adding a new one to reservoir, pumping the brake and releasing the old liquid though the bleeding niple. But before that I tried to simple suck the old brake fluid through open niple using a hudge 100ml medical syringe with transparent hose while adding a new brake fluid to a reservoir...
It did not work. In spite of making a strong vacuum with syringe I wasn t able to pool out almost any fluid. So I proccide with procedure described above.

My question would be , is that normal or it might be an obturation somewhere in lines... As I understand that part of mechanic, in simple non ABS or CBS(combined brake system) by opening the bleeding niple and the reservoir cover the fluid should leaks out simply by gravity slowly or with little help of a weak vacuum much faster... I am not familiar with ABS/CBS systems... I have tried to suck out the brake fluid from the front clippers too, its not working either. But the front brakes work ok...

If anyone have an explanation, please let me know...
Thanks in advanced.
Stan

 

[Widowmaker]

Hi there ST owners. I would like to ask those who have an experience or a information related with ASB as well as CBS braking system on ST 1100 1996.

The brakes on my bike started to be a kind of sticky. I tried to solve the problem by pushing the pistons out by pedal or lever as much as possible (clippers taken off the bike and braking pads out too). After that I have used some inappropriate (some VB40 a copy of a WD40) to wash the pistons and to grease them.... And that was a huge mistake...
I have destroyed the piston seals. They become swollen, so the brakes started to be even more sticky....
I have ordered a new hydraulic seals and dust seals for all nine pistons from WEMOTO and now I am waiting.

However, during my struggle with brakes I changed a brake fluid by adding a new one to reservoir, pumping the brake and releasing the old liquid though the bleeding niple. But before that I tried to simple suck the old brake fluid through open niple using a hudge 100ml medical syringe with transparent hose while adding a new brake fluid to a reservoir...
It did not work. In spite of making a strong vacuum with syringe I wasn t able to pool out almost any fluid. So I proccide with procedure described above.

My question would be , is that normal or it might be an obturation somewhere in lines... As I understand that part of mechanic, in simple non ABS or CBS(combined brake system) by opening the bleeding niple and the reservoir cover the fluid should leaks out simply by gravity slowly or with little help of a weak vacuum much faster... I am not familiar with ABS/CBS systems... I have tried to suck out the brake fluid from the front clippers too, its not working either. But the front brakes work ok...

If anyone have an explanation, please let me know...
Thanks in advanced.
Stan

I had a rock that got wedged into the metal tubing brake lines on the rear swingarm that caused a similar sticking issue on my rear brake. I only found it after I overhauled the brake system.

I used a syringe tool as well to drain my entire system. After you get a vaccum it takes about 10-20 seconds to get fluid coming out from the bleeder. Also, you have to bleed the two lower caliper bleeders for the front as well as the two rear caliper bleeds to flush out the pedal line.

I just went with a full caliper rebuild and overhaul. All lines swapped, all OEM steel tubing replaced with custom ss lines, ceramic pads, caliper rebuilds, even a new rear reservoir.

To answer your question, yes there can be something in your braking system that can have gotten punctured, or blocked. Since you ordered new seals, I imagine you will be rebuilding all calipers. Now when you go to rebuild them I guarantee there will at least a 1/2" of sludge in the piston well of the caliper you were unable to bleed. Follow that line and try to find the source of contamination.

I would recommend swapping out the OEM rubber hoses for SS hoses, however it is a daunting task and requires quite a bit of mechanical ability on the LBS/CBS models. There are 18 Rubber hoses and 4 steel tubing brake lines on the OEM setup. Galfer makes a kit for 16 of the lines but does not provide the lines that go from the rear abs modulator to the rear caliper, as they are wrapped around underneath the gas tank.

 

[Widowmaker]

Also my bikes is disassembled at the moment waiting on parts I ordered 60 days ago from Bikebandit. So if you need pics let me know.

 

[jfheath]

You may or may not be aware that the two centre pistons on the front calipers are operated by the brake pedal, not by the front brake lever. Also, the rear outer pistons are operated directly by the SMC when the front left caliper grabs the rotating disk rotor when the front brake lever is operated - but only when the bike is moving. In the garage, the fluid comes from the rear brake pedal, passing through the SMC.

The links below will give you some valuable information. Although they are written specifically for the ST1300, the plumbing and fluid flow for the 1100 ABS/CBS is more or less the same.

The key difference is the location of the secondary master cylinder (SMC). On the 1300 this is an integral part of the caliper bracket, which puts the cylinder at an odd angle And it requires tilting when bleeding.

This is not the case on the 1100. The SMC is positioned vertically behind the left hand fork leg and is pointing downwards, like the rear brake pedal master cylinder, which helps keep water out. However, it does have a linkage with 3 pivot points - one to the fork leg, one to the caliper bracket, one to the SMC plunger. Thus mechanism can rust and get locked into one position, and may need removing and cleaning up, or even have new needle roller bearings Fitted.

The only other difference that I can think of is that these notes refer to a bleed valve near to the proportional control valve. I don't think that the 1100 has a separate bleed point. Other than that the sequence for bleeding the rear is similar:
left front, lower valve
right front, lower valve
rear, fwd valve
rear, rearward valve.

There is no need to concern yourself with the ABS as part of the bleeding process. There is nothing extra to do.

Treat the front system separately from the rear. The front system consists of the front brake lever, master cylinder and reservoir, and the two outer pistons of the front calipers. So only the upper bleed valve.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Getting all the air out of the brake system | ST1300 Articles

A detailed look at the process of getting the air out of the Honda ST1300 brake lines. A sequence of diagrams of the brake circuits, colour coded to show which parts of the system are being accessed when each bleed valve is opened and explanations of where the trouble spots are. These are just...

www.st-owners.com

The avoiding the pitfall article below is also written for the 1300. Some of it is not relevant to the 1100, but the all 3 brake calipers are of a very similar design to the rear caliper described and photographed in the article, and much of what is covered applies to the 1100 as well.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Avoiding the Pitfalls | ST1300 Articles

A close hands-on look at the Honda ST1300 braking system. These are personal observations about the things that can go wrong, why they go wrong and what can be done to keep things working sweetly. Updated April 2020 and to address more recent observations, to include information about the SMC...

www.st-owners.com

Also, if you google three words: 'share', 'experience', and 'ST1100' you will find something that you may find helpful. The document refers to LBS. That is Linked Braking System and is the same as Combined Braking System and I think is your model. Look for the sections with calipers with 3 pistons. Some earlier ST1100s with ABS had only 2 pistons per caliper.