Welding with pacemaker

STinner

STinner

Retired
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
7
Age
71
Location
Northern Ohio
Bike
2025 Goldwing
2025 Miles
001992
Greetings everyone.
haven't posted for a while
sorry Coffee Club.
Well the title might be the clue.
november 16th i turned 71 and recieved
a pacemaker for a present. Long story short
does anyone know of anybody who has a
pacemaker and has continued to weld. I
would love to hear their stories.
If I must stop welding my 1966 Chevy Van
project will be up for sale.

Thanks

David (STinner)
 
STinner said:
Greetings everyone.
haven't posted for a while
sorry Coffee Club.
Well the title might be the clue.
november 16th i turned 71 and recieved
a pacemaker for a present. Long story short
does anyone know of anybody who has a
pacemaker and has continued to weld. I
would love to hear their stories.
If I must stop welding my 1966 Chevy Van
project will be up for sale.

Thanks

David (STinner)
Click to expand...
While it is highly recommended to avoid arc welding if you have a pacemaker due to the significant health risks, it may be possible for some individuals to do so under strict medical supervision and by following specific precautions. You must consult your cardiologist and the device manufacturer before attempting any welding.

Primary Concerns
The main risk is that the strong electromagnetic (EM) fields produced by arc welding equipment can interfere with the pacemaker's function. This interference can cause the device to:
 
I don’t know the answer to your question other than to check with knowledgeable medical personnel. But I just finished reading Pushing Miles by Wendy Crockett and Ian McPhee and in the epilogue they mention a friend who was helping them out with some welding on the road. Later they found out that his medical device was giving him info that his heart readings spiked They sounded potentially dangerous.
 
When I went for my first pacemaker checkup after I got mine, they hooked me up, downloaded the data and told me that I had a couple of instances where my unit stopped briefly. They were able to tell me the dates and times and through the process of elimination, we determined that it was likely caused by my MIG welder. I wasnt aware that was an issue, but now I know. When I weld, i usually stand very close. They told me if I had to weld to try holding my arm outstretched further, which is awkward, obviously. I have welded a few times since and they have never said anything. I get the impression that making a small difference in distance can make a difference in interference. A welding forum would be a good place to ask a question like this. I imagine there are many in your position and I would think there would be many opinions. I wonder if there isnt some kind of shield one could wear when welding. I dont weld enough to be too concerned so I never looked into it further.
 
Bmacleod said:
A welding forum would be a good place to ask a question like this. I imagine there are many in your position and I would think there would be many opinions. I wonder if there isnt some kind of shield one could wear when welding.
Click to expand...
My guess is one would get a lot of anecdotal evidence from a welding forum, and the best source of knowledgeable info would come from @STinner's doctors (especially if the doc welds). Since this could be a life safety issue, I'd not want opinions and beliefs. I'd also guess the docs will give the most conservative advice, even if there are other options.

As far as a shield, your comment about distance sounds perfect. Electromagnetic fields behave according to the inverse square law, so doubling the distance decreases the field strength by 1/4; triple the distance, decrease by 1/9. Making a vest out of copper screen and grounding it would be an interesting experiment, but would probably require expensive test equipment.
 
SMSW said:
Electromagnetic fields behave according to the inverse square law, so doubling the distance decreases the field strength by 1/4; triple the distance, decrease by 1/9.
Click to expand...
A decrease of 1/4 is a much larger decrease than 1/9th is. If increasing the distance from an EMF source results in a weaker field strength, then triple the distance from the source should result in a greater decrease of the EMF strength than double the distance does.

Should this be that double the distance from the source the field strength is 1/4 as strong, and triple the distance it is 1/9th as strong?
 
Where I previously worked there were many highly trained and specialized welders using all types of welding procedures. If any of them had a unipolar pacemaker implanted they were no longer allowed to weld. Anyone who had a bipolar pacemaker implanted was only allowed to operate automated welding equipment that allowed them to stay a safe distance from the EMF field. I don't know if that was based on health and safety laws or just company policy. Unfortunately that is the extent of my knowledge about this so all I can suggest is that this be discussed with the cardiologist.
 
I was offered a pacemaker several years ago for my heart condition, which is bad enough to put me below DOT standards and cost me my job as a mechanic. CDL required. I did not get one as welding will blank the programming in the pacemaker and with the newer ones will illicit a phone call to find out what is going on. Short answer is NO ELECTRICAL WELDING. Long answer NO
I am sure there is someone out there that knows tricks that can get you by, it is your coin. Standing close or far away depends on load, magnetic fields are finicky. I have done welding jobs where the arc was blowing until I wrapped the ground lead around the steel I was welding. Now if you want to start with TIG check on the high frequency start, or is it scratch start.
Murphy's law. If you mess with something long enough, you will break it, keep playing games with a pacemaker and see who wins
For me it would be like telling me I can't ride anymore and my condition is pretty much stable so I passed, I won't be running marathons anyway.
I was lucky, I had the time in at work with being old enough I packed it all in and retired.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Where I previously worked there were many highly trained and specialized welders using all types of welding procedures. If any of them had a unipolar pacemaker implanted they were no longer allowed to weld. Anyone who had a bipolar pacemaker implanted was only allowed to operate automated welding equipment that allowed them to stay a safe distance from the EMF field. I don't know if that was based on health and safety laws or just company policy. Unfortunately that is the extent of my knowledge about this so all I can suggest is that this be discussed with the cardiologist.
Click to expand...
YES
 
Thanks for all the replies. My cardiologist came clean of the fact that he didn't know to what extent welding would have on my pacemaker. He suggested to contact the engineers at the company who made it which I did. AC welding proved to be the main culprit when it came to any real interference with the functionality of a pacemaker. With being a dual-chamber unit the shielding isn't sufficient to properly safeguard its operation. DC welding on the other hand with low amperage <160 amps combined with distance precautions would allow short-term welding capabilities.
I was mainly interested in finding out if any of you knew of any real-life examples in which people with pacemakers had successfully welded while wearing one. My doctor said something very interesting the other day in that none of his patients who welded had any problems welding except for those whose pacemakers were required to maintain sinus rhythm. I wear one because my resting HR is consistently in the high 30's and now keeps it in the 60's. I will be having people around me in a few weeks when I complete my rehab time and see if anything will happen and then a trip to the ER to see what effect welding has on the pacemaker. I am ready to accept the fact that this chapter is over. The good news is that I can still ride even with the electrical systems in my 2025 Goldwing. Six inches in the minimum distance away from any source on the bike.
 
The good news is I can too! Maybe we'll meet somewhere and not even know it, or maybe we will know it!
With enough welders out there I think they will come up with a safe way to run a pacemaker soon. Since I was offered one the changes have come through quite well. All it comes down to is insulating the unit from the outside interference.
I wonder if a lined jacket that has a ground lead might do the trick, don't think so but spit balling ideas has to start somewhere. I was lucky, I could choose.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
A decrease of 1/4 is a much larger decrease than 1/9th is. If increasing the distance from an EMF source results in a weaker field strength, then triple the distance from the source should result in a greater decrease of the EMF strength than double the distance does.

Should this be that double the distance from the source the field strength is 1/4 as strong, and triple the distance it is 1/9th as strong?
Click to expand...
I think I phrased that improperly. Your second sentence is right. Double the distance and the field strength will be 1/4 as great. Triple the distance and the field strength will be 1/9th as great. Farther = less field strength.

Grin, the inverse square law doesn't care how you verbally describe it. It is the same regardless.
 
STinner said:
I was mainly interested in finding out if any of you knew of any real-life examples in which people with pacemakers had successfully welded while wearing one.
Click to expand...
This is what I mean by anecdotal evidence. Just because one guy I knew fell off a 40' foot ladder with nothing more than full body bruises doesn't mean it is acceptable to disregard safety practices knowing I will survive.

In my first post above, I was going to say that some people's pacemakers simply monitor their heart and when detecting a specific arrhythmia the device kicks out a shock to stimulate the heart back into normal beating. If one can engage in unsafe behavior between these events, all is good. But it is safer to do what you did, talk to your doc and then the engineers.
 
As a retiree from the medical device industry (Medtronic), I’m sure the manufacturer had to do extensive EMF testing before receiving regulatory approval. It might depend heavily on the type/model pacemaker you have. There are newer units out there that allow patients to undergo an MRI, which is a very intense EMF environment. My bet is that the manufacturer has documentation available to share with your doctor and often directly with patients as well.
 
wjbertrand said:
As a retiree from the medical device industry (Medtronic), I’m sure the manufacturer had to do extensive EMF testing before receiving regulatory approval. It might depend heavily on the type/model pacemaker you have. There are newer units out there that allow patients to undergo an MRI, which is a very intense EMF environment. My bet is that the manufacturer has documentation available to share with your doctor and often directly with patients as well.
Click to expand...
My wife had many pacemakers, 11 or 12 IIRC, over a period of 40 years. Most were Medtronic and pacing technology advances over time as well as implant surgery techniques were amazing. Went from the time of not being able to use a microwave to being able to get MRIs. She actually had two her last year of life, one being a wireless one placed in one of the atria. It was only as big as a 9mm bullet.
 
It has been 7 years since I retired and turned down a pacemaker. The reason for saying no to one was based on dated impressions and info from years before. At the time I still think it was the right decision for me.
In the past I have built a lift for my bikes and am making lifts for picking up dropped bikes, I still repair a lot of sh... stuff for me and others.
I think it is time for me to revisit the pacemaker field again. Never crossed my mind that updates would happen this fast. Hindsight says "DUH pay attention"
 
Motorcycle forums is probably the last place I would go to for medical advice forum. That being said
I worked with a mid 30 year old welder who after getting a pacemaker device his welding days were over .
 

h a heart device weld?​

Welding with a heart device requires several precautions in place before participating:

  • Limit welding to currents less than 160 amps.
  • Work in a dry area and wear dry gloves and shoes.
  • Maintain a 24 in (60 cm) distance between the welding arc and heart device.
  • Place the welding unit approximately 60 in (152 cm) away from the work area.
  • Keep the welding cables close together and as far away from the heart device as possible.
  • Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible.
  • Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.
  • Wait several seconds between attempts when having difficulty starting a weld.
  • Work in an area that offers firm footing and plenty of room for movement.
  • Immediately stop welding and step away from the area if feeling lightheaded, dizzy, or experiencing other symptoms.
  • Work with an informed person who understands these suggestions
From Medtronic's web site
To go with this there is also a myriad list of heart conditions and a lot of different pacemaker configurations for each condition.
Easy answer is still no welding, too many variables to consider
 
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