ABS vs Non-ABS

I have an '03 non-ABS and very happy with it. I bought it in April '03; never had an issue. I think I locked the rear one time at a traffic light that changed unexpectedly on me.
 
Perhaps I should be clearer and say that, for me, the linked brakes AND ABS are much preferred over the non-ABS version of any bike.

I have never had an ABS actuation on any ST unless I deliberately provoked it...... but I guess it is true that the older non ABS with twin pot calipers does require more effort in braking, but is far easier to lock up the rear without trying too hard.
The un-learning for me was not having linked brakes and hence using more front brake and less rear brake, making a conscious effort to brake in a balanced way, rather than the bike doing it for me, and not using too much rear brake when trailing into a reducing radius bend or the like.

That all sounds wrong and a bit amateur but perhaps you will understand what I mean, suffice to say, the brakes on the ABS equipped bike are far better than the non ABS bike, IMHO.

Certainly, once used to the ABS/CBS/TCS equipped bike, going back to a non equipped bike requires a bit of thought and finesse if you are not to embarrass yourself......
 
eallen said:
Looking to pickup a used st1300
i am wondering how much more effective an ABS model would be.
have found some good bikes with low miles NON ABS.
Just not sure any opinions out there?
Thanks
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I will not buy a bike without ABS.

ABS is supplied on all Boeing and Airbus airplanes. Humans are simply not as fast as computers when things 'go wrong'. No matter how trained the pilots are, it has proven to aircraft manufacturers to be of sufficient benefit to include the added expense and weight on airplanes. There's a lot of testing, analysis, and engineering in that longstanding decision.

For many of the same reasons, ABS is of benefits on motorcycles. We shouldn't ride in a way to depend on ABS, and 99.99% of the time you brake you'll not need it, but rather ABS is a safety feature that provides important capability that 0.01% of the time. Wiki article (mentions airplanes and motorcycles).
 
This isn't actually true for the 1300. Both the ABS and non-ABS bikes have exactly the same brake hardware, including linked brakes.

Firstpeke said:
Perhaps I should be clearer and say that, for me, the linked brakes AND ABS are much preferred over the non-ABS version of any bike.

I have never had an ABS actuation on any ST unless I deliberately provoked it...... but I guess it is true that the older non ABS with twin pot calipers does require more effort in braking, but is far easier to lock up the rear without trying too hard.
The un-learning for me was not having linked brakes and hence using more front brake and less rear brake, making a conscious effort to brake in a balanced way, rather than the bike doing it for me, and not using too much rear brake when trailing into a reducing radius bend or the like.

That all sounds wrong and a bit amateur but perhaps you will understand what I mean, suffice to say, the brakes on the ABS equipped bike are far better than the non ABS bike, IMHO.

Certainly, once used to the ABS/CBS/TCS equipped bike, going back to a non equipped bike requires a bit of thought and finesse if you are not to embarrass yourself......
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I love my (Non ABS) ST1100. But if I had it to do over again I would have held out for an ABS model. If /when I buy a 1300 it Will definitely have ABS. Definitely!

Look at it this way. You will Never regret having ABS. You may very well regret Not having it.
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and experiences. i think from what i here out there the bike is great without and even better with the ABS. Its not so much a money issue for me so i may just be patient and wait for the right bike. from what i am hearing whatever i buy i could be putting on alot of miles on it so might as well get the right one.
Cheers
 
You should also consider that having ABS may also get you a discount on insurance. Certainly not enough to cover the additional expense of ABS, but every little bit helps. And according to this (question 14):
"Studies by the Institute and HLDI compared crash rates for motorcycles equipped with optional antilock brakes against the same models without the option. The rate of fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years was 37 percent lower for motorcycles equipped with optional antilocks than for those same motorcycles without them. In crashes of all severities, the frequency at which collision claims were filed was 22 percent lower for the antilock models"
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If you actually use ABS, you'll never know it. But if you lock the tires on a bike w/o ABS, you'll know you needed it.

As for avoiding dangerous traffic situations, the only way to do that is to avoid ALL traffic.

Saturday, on HWY 52, I was in the left lane with a slower vehicle in the right lane ahead of me and a 4dr sedan coming up behind also in the right lane. The 4dr pulled up even with me and I saw a girl, probably mid-20s, driving and a passenger in the back seat and I assume one in the front, both of us gaining on the slower car ahead of her. "She's not that stupid," I thought. When the rear passenger door was even with my front tire, she pulled into my lane to pass the car in front of her. As she started to pull into my lane, the back seat passenger saw me and I saw her lips move, but I'm not a lip-reader. I pulled into the median shoulder, braked and honked my horn, but she kept coming. I had slowed enough to pull back in behind her. Once she was completely in my lane, she accelerated, passed the slower traffic and pulled back into the right lane and slowed a bit. She had to pass me to do this, she had to have seen me when she passed me but she acted as though I was invisible. After we were pas the slower traffic, I pulled up beside her, she looked over at me and I looked at her and pointed to my eyes with my index and forefingers, the universal "Watch where you are going" signal. She gave me "talk to the hand".

I can't say ABS saved me because I didn't have to break that hard, and by instinct, I already had my foot just above the break pedal just in case. There is no such thing as safe traffic.
 
Yes, ABS is worth the cost. It may save your life, limb, or skin. Plus, you should recover the cost when reselling, and much easier to sell!!

While riding my R1150RT a few years ago, no doubt in my mind, it saved me from a collision with a cage, which ran a stop sign. I was riding two up, loaded with camping gear, etc. ABS is worth every penny!! Granted, motorcycling is somewhat risky, but with ABS you lower that risk factor. It may extend your days in the saddle!!!!

Sidenote: A couple of years ago, while hanging out at the local Honda shop, I noticed several saleman laughing. I asked what was going on, and they told me that some "old guy" had just called from his hospital bed. He was riding his Gold Wing, and had just had a head on collision, which must have been very low speed. Anyway, he wanted to place an order for a new Wing with an airbag, since he stated that with an airbag, he didn't think he would have been injured. I don't have an airbag Wing, but if I would have bought new, it would be an airbag model. However, I would not consider a non ABS bike, at least for touring. At age 69, I need every safety feature available. Those reflexes just are not what they used to be!!
 
The extra cost of ABS really shouldn't even be an issue. With the expense of the ST's tupperware and other parts, if the ABS saves you from even a single relatively minor tip over, it will probably have paid for itself. If in that scenario it also spares you an insurance claim and / or an injury, you've actually made money on the investment in my book.
 
It's saved me a couple times on wet pavement when someone pulled out in front of me. Every bike I ever have from this day forward will have it. Period.
 
"If you actually use ABS, you'll never know it."

Oh, you'll know it. You'll feel the pulsing of the system.

Of all the people who think ABS has saved them, on almost all of these accounts it never even activated. It's a little scary that some think it is working when it doesn't need too... Maybe adding some false confidence?

I don't see the mandatory need for ABS on a 2 wheeled vehicle where you have more or less independent control of both wheels. On a cage it is more important because you have but one "brake activator" for 4 wheels. Wouldn't be without it on a car.

Nice to have, sure. But like many have said, it should not be a deal breaker.
 
It's been nearly 3 years since the last post on this thread but I think I'll just add my 2 cents worth. You simp,y cannot anticipate an emergency - by definition, they are always a surprise. Therefore, any system that assists in an emergency simply has to be seen as a good thing.
I rode for 15 years without ABS (NOBODY had it in the 1970's except large aircraft) and I haven't used it on my "new" ST1300 - yet, but I know I'll be darned glad it's there if I ever do. In the meantime, I'm quite willing to haul around the extra hardware and look at the pretty red light on the dash when I start her up.
 
eallen said:
Looking to pickup a used st1300
i am wondering how much more effective an ABS model would be.
have found some good bikes with low miles NON ABS.
Just not sure any opinions out there?
Thanks
Click to expand...

I've had a bunch of motorcycles of all ages in the last 47 years, I've also restored many cars and 4 airplanes. In addition I spent 38 years in the A&D industry building complex weapons systems for Uncle Sam. One simple constant applies to owning all things mechanical and that is that the older something is less complex is better. When I went in search of my ST1300 I intentionally sought out a non-abs model with the manually adjustable 3 position windshield for the simple reason that I didn't want to deal with complex aging electronics and servo motors. I'm retired and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars replacing aging abs control components or windscreen motors. My 2003 was a wonderful reliable bike and despite the absence of abs it still has Honda's linked braking system (LBS) which is mechanical and virtually foolproof. Then again I'm the kind of guy that would still buy a car with crank up windows and a front bench seat if I could find one. Just my 2cents.
 
VT-Woodchuck said:
I've had a bunch of motorcycles of all ages in the last 47 years, I've also restored many cars and 4 airplanes. In addition I spent 38 years in the A&D industry building complex weapons systems for Uncle Sam. One simple constant applies to owning all things mechanical and that is that the older something is less complex is better. When I went in search of my ST1300 I intentionally sought out a non-abs model with the manually adjustable 3 position windshield for the simple reason that I didn't want to deal with complex aging electronics and servo motors. I'm retired and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars replacing aging abs control components or windscreen motors. My 2003 was a wonderful reliable bike and despite the absence of abs it still has Honda's linked braking system (LBS) which is mechanical and virtually foolproof. Then again I'm the kind of guy that would still buy a car with crank up windows and a front bench seat if I could find one. Just my 2cents.
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We all have our particular hangups! ;)

My first two ST1300s were without ABS, I put over 174K miles on my '05 before selling it to one of my sons, who is still riding it. And my '04#1 has been plagued with leaks after putting 37K miles after restoring it with 31K miles. When I bought my 2010 (as a wreck), I rode it for about a year before fixing the ABS. And after riding abut 360K miles in the last 13.5 years, I have had only one instance that the ABS actually was needed.

Wet road, four way stop, I stopped, the gal to my right stopped after I did, I started to go and all of a sudden she went too! I hit the horn (Stebal) and she woke up from her cell phone in time to see me right in front of her. When I hit the horn, I also hit the brakes, and hard! I know that if I would have been on one of my non-ABS bikes, I would have gone down!

So, have I needed them that often? No, but I was glad I had them when I did! :thumb:

Oh, and about the adjustable windshield, I've had two go out on me. one at 125K (on the '05 - under warranty) and one messed up due to a FARKLE wire getting in the way. I have bought a number of them off ebay, so I can fix them anytime I need! :cool:
 
I look at ABS as just another piece of safety gear to have on my side - like proper lighting, a helmet on your head, loud horns, proper riding gear, TPMS, etc. And you can ride thousands of miles and never need it. But when you need it, you are mighty glad that you had it. It usually makes the difference between an accident and just a 'clean my pants out' incident. :biggrin: In 15 years of riding on one of my ABS equipped ST1100s, it has kicked on 3 times and in two of those occasions all the skill in the world wouldn't have saved my bacon.
 
VT-Woodchuck said:
I've had a bunch of motorcycles of all ages in the last 47 years, I've also restored many cars and 4 airplanes. In addition I spent 38 years in the A&D industry building complex weapons systems for Uncle Sam. One simple constant applies to owning all things mechanical and that is that the older something is less complex is better. When I went in search of my ST1300 I intentionally sought out a non-abs model with the manually adjustable 3 position windshield for the simple reason that I didn't want to deal with complex aging electronics and servo motors. I'm retired and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars replacing aging abs control components or windscreen motors. My 2003 was a wonderful reliable bike and despite the absence of abs it still has Honda's linked braking system (LBS) which is mechanical and virtually foolproof. Then again I'm the kind of guy that would still buy a car with crank up windows and a front bench seat if I could find one. Just my 2cents.
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Yeah, it's a real shame you cannot get kickstarters, total loss electrical and lubrication systems, breaker point ignitions and what about manual spark advance or leather drive belts for that matter?? Bunch of sissy riders today, that's for sure! ;)
 
Uncle Phil said:
I look at ABS as just another piece of safety gear to have on my side - like proper lighting, a helmet on your head, loud horns, proper riding gear, etc. And you can ride thousands of miles and never need it. But when you need it, you are mighty glad that you had it. It usually makes the difference between an accident and just a 'clean my pants out' incident. :biggrin: In 15 years of riding on one of my ABS equipped ST1100s, it has kicked on 3 times and in two of those occasions all the skill in the world wouldn't have saved my bacon.
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I have a 2002 non ABS ST and over 16 seasons of riding never had an occasion to slam on the brakes in a collision avoidance type situation, which just means I've been very lucky to date. When the ST gets replaced my new bike will very definitely have ABS.

wjbertrand said:
Yeah, it's a real shame you cannot get kickstarters, total loss electrical and lubrication systems, breaker point ignitions and what about manual spark advance or leather drive belts for that matter?? Bunch of sissy riders today, that's for sure! ;)
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I'm old enough to remember my father and a few of his friends sitting around discussing the need for seat belts in cars and remember hearing that it would be better to thrown clear of an accident rather than being belted into a car. Another seat belt danger discussed was going over a bridge railing and then being trapped in your sinking car by your seat belt.

I think the stats re car total miles driven and the continually declining rate of deaths/injuries per million miles speak for themselves. ABS, air bags and other safety hardware add complicity and cost to vehicles, but they do work to reduce deaths and injuries. ABS, helmets laws and ATGATT do the same thing for riders.
 
I wanted to say "saved my bacon" first but Uncle Phil beat me to it. I can take ABS or leave it, it makes no difference to me when I buy a motorcycle. I have both and regularly practice threshold braking on both. That has saved my bacon.

I agree that the old simple machines will never break down due to faulty electronics or doo-dads but Honda is really good at producing electronics and doo-dads that are very reliable. I don't think I've ever heard of a ST1300 ABS pump or modulator failure . There have been a few windshield lift failures. My ST has about 190,000 miles on it and the windshield still works as designed.
 
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