Thoughts on freeway driving

SMSW

Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,175
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
I spent more time on freeways this week than usual - about 600 miles. Yes, I know @jodog and a few other guys probably do this kind of mileage every other day, but I was surprised by a few observations.

My weekly run to breakfast is 20 miles down the freeway at 8.00 o'clock in the morning for Wednesday's mc club breakfast. Traffic moves along smartly at 75 to 85 mph - 3 to 5 lanes wide. Going that fast that early in the am is better than coffee to wake me up. On my drive down to @Uncle Phil's RTE, i saw two semi tractor trailers drift out of their lane far enough that I moved over to my left a lane. In all my years of driving I have never seen semi's drift out of their lane. I've watched one or two get a flat tire and pull off onto the shoulder, seen a few running with a flat flopping around, seen trucks that had just run off the road and crashed,etc, but never saw the pro's drift halfway into another lane then correct themselves.

Ever since I asked about super single tires, I've been on the lookout for them. This week I saw none and have not noticed any in the last couple of years. Before that, I saw a lot of them. I can only assume the super single drivers are on the truck route interstates and not on the freeways I drive.

When I learned to drive, the rule of thumb was you kept one car length for every 10mph of speed. What has happened to that? I've seen cars tooling along at 70 and 75 barely two car lengths apart. Truckers - who I generally think know better, are adhering to what I was taught, but maybe it is self preservation. A big rig cannot stop as quickly as a car.

Rudeness seems to be the rule of the road. Ride your tail for miles when there is very light traffic and 3 lanes, then pass you and cut in w/ one car length space and sit there. I was tooling along behind a truck, approaching my exit with plenty of space behind me. A kid roared up on my right and pulled over in front of me with barely any space. I was forced to pull to my left or he would have sideswiped me.

I think highway workers put those YIELD signs up on entrance ramps as a form of job preservation. NOBODY seems to pay them any heed. Slow down and let oncoming traffic pass you by, hah! Speed up and pull in front of them. About the only place folks do yield is at those new big traffic circles - but I think that is because of confusion. Lets wait a bit and see how drivers behave once they get used to driving in a circle.

FedEx was running a few 'trains' on the Ohio Tpk. I saw several 3 trailer rigs and quite a few double trailers.

In another thread I asked about the wind deflectors, hub covers, and those huge wind doors on the aft of trailers. The answers I got was they reduce drag and increase fuel economy and you most often see them on owner operator rigs. Well, I saw a lot of big expensive, late model tractors and a few of them had the big flat hubcaps. But if these pay for themselves relatively quickly (as I was told) it was surprising how few of the trucks had them.
 
SMSW I'd have to agree with all your observations. I rode 300 miles yesterday and the "I could have died" count was only 3. A bit low for a normal day of riding. Seriously 3 times I had to swerve yield the lane or brake to avoid being hit but it's beyond normal anymore.

I'm surprised no mention of the people sitting behind the steering wheels staring down into their laps at cell phones.
 
If you want a real heart stopper, drive on LA freeways sometimes - 6- 8 lanes 70-90 mph when traffic is moving ...
And you look around you and most everybody has their face stuck in a cellphone - BTDTGTTS! :eek:
It's as if the lowest priority task when someone gets into an automobile is driving.
 
Sounds like you had a pleasant and safe trip compared to some of the highways around the Toronto area.

If poor driving, aggressive driving, distracted and angry people are a concern for you stay off the 400 series highways in and around the Toronto area, in particular the 401.

I've stopped riding on the 401 across Toronto, I use the 407 toll road instead. Expensive, but safe.
 
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ReSTored said:
Sounds like you had a pleasant and safe trip compared to some of the highways around the Toronto area.

If poor driving, aggressive driving, distracted and angry people are a concern for you stay off the 400 series highways in and around the Toronto area, in particular the 401.

I've stopped riding on the 401 across Toronto, I use the 407 toll road instead. Expensive, but safe.
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This...

I lived in the greater Toronto area all my life, until 2 years ago. I go back to Ontario a couple of times a year and what an eye opener it is. From PEI to Montreal, it is smooth and effortless. From Montreal to Toronto, it is a total s***show. I saw things getting worse over the last 5 years or so, but to go away to one of the quietest places you can go and then go back every 6 or 8 months, I see huge changes in chaos every time I go back. The amount of truck traffic has exceeded the design of the highway. The Ontario government, years ago limited the speed of trucks to 105kph to try and answer concerns over truck safety. It has created more problems than it has solved. You now have long lines of trucks in the fast lane going 1/2 a km faster than the slow vehicle/s it is passing, with long lines of PO'ed driver behind them. For the most part, it doesn't bother me that much as I tend to run at 105 when in my pickup anyways, but to see some of the risks drivers take to try and get past these trucks is insane. I have seen cars approach the back of these trucks at 40-50 kph faster than the truck, anticipating the truck cutting them off and suddenly the truck does exactly that. I have seen cars try and hold their ground while the truck forces them off the road. The truckers are frustrated/clueless and the cagers are irate. All the 105 kph truck speed limit has done is create gridlock as well as ensuring that when the truck hits you, it will only be doing 105 kph. I was a truck driver for years and I can say, as do most truck drivers that the quality of truck drivers now is frightening. Some drive with no concern for the safety of others around them. The alarming trend these days is trucks slamming into the back of stopped traffic. It has happened in and around the GTA at least a half dozen times in recent years, always with fatal results. How does this happen??? I was back in Toronto a week ago and when leaving last Friday morning, I came across 2 trucks laying on their sides off of the highway at different points. Weather had been good the previous night. The fact that the truck traffic has increased many times over the past 5 years or so means that the problems are only going to get worse. The Ontario government does little to solve the issues. Now, I only speak of and bash Ontario, it seems, but it is only because I lived and worked there all my life so I can speak on my experience there. I am sure it is bad elsewhere, but I cant say how much from lack of recent experience elsewhere. When driving to the east coast, traffic thins out east of Quebec city. The same trucks running in Ontario are running in the Maritimes, but because there is so little traffic, they are not a nuisance. After Quebec City, my bigger concerns are moose in NB...lol. Also, to be fair, the quality of cage drivers is nothing to write home about. Unfortunately, it is the trucks that create more chaos and damage when things go south.
 
I hate having to ride on 3 to 5 lane highways. I avoid them if at all possible. If I do 100 miles a year on that stuff it's a lot. However, since I live north of Chicago I have no choice at times. The Tollway aka I 94/294 has these wonderful sound walls that make riding with lots of traffic a white knuckle ride on the ST. You bounce around with the occasional weave just for fun with all the air bouncing off cars, trucks and walls. Oh and that is at 80 to 90 mph right on top of everyone.
 
I had an observation driving the car the other day that was absolutely terrifying.

My radar-lock cruise control was locked to the car in front of the motorcycle in front of me. It refused to see the motorcycle as a vehicle and wanted to run the bike over. Because I know how my feet work and pay attention to the road, obviously didn't murder a rider, but the knowledge that there are millions of cars on the road that have the same "adaptive cruise control" that people are leaning on made me much more aware of who's behind me when I ride.
 
tpasco1995 said:
I had an observation driving the car the other day that was absolutely terrifying.

My radar-lock cruise control was locked to the car in front of the motorcycle in front of me. It refused to see the motorcycle as a vehicle and wanted to run the bike over. Because I know how my feet work and pay attention to the road, obviously didn't murder a rider, but the knowledge that there are millions of cars on the road that have the same "adaptive cruise control" that people are leaning on made me much more aware of who's behind me when I ride.
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Good to know. I wonder if we (when on bikes) should be riding in the center of the lane to be 'seen' by adaptive cruise sensors. Is there a 'sweet spot' for the radar?
 
It seems that the more 'safety' and 'automatic' features built into the new vehicles, the less people think they have to pay attention.
As a motorcyclist, I have come to assume that any driver around me is probably going to do the worst possible thing for my continuing existence. ;)
So I just prepare for the 'turn in front of me', 'pull out in front of me', 'run over me from behind', 'come over into my lane without looking' ... the list goes on.
If a driver is on a cell phone that already lets you know that they value that 'interchange of data' more than they value your life or well being.
Not paranoia as much as just the reality of the present world we live in.
 
 
SMSW said:
Good to know. I wonder if we (when on bikes) should be riding in the center of the lane to be 'seen' by adaptive cruise sensors. Is there a 'sweet spot' for the radar?
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I have that on my Grand Cherokee and it picks up motorcycles most of the time no matter where they are in the lane. But one thing that I've noticed is if I follow a bike for several miles and he's stayed in pretty much the same spot in the lane it may forget he's there and might not adjust when needed. I have an indicator on my dash that shows if it's detecting something in front of me so I can tell when that happens and I'll weave a bit in my lane so that it will pick him up again. Because I've noticed that in my car I will occasionally swap sides of the lane when I ride and there are cars behind me. Even if they don't have a sensor I'm hoping my lateral movement at least gets picked up by their eyes.
That adaptive cruise control system uses the same sensor as the automatic braking system so even if I'm not using the cruise control I want to be sure that anything in front of me is being picked up by the car.
 
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Yes, I'd say the quality of drivers, or maybe just their effort to be competent drivers as been severely reduced over the past 10yrs. Yeah, truck drivers are not the professionals they once were. Lots of lane departures, inattention. I run 84 miles round trip for work, evenly split between two-lane divided at 60-65mph, and interstate at 80-100mph. Throw in the last 5min in city traffic. I feel safest on the interstate at 80+mph. Why? There is nobody coming the other way, turning left in front of me. There is nobody pulling out unexpectedly from the right. I ride just fast enough that nobody, or very few are tailgating me. Those that do, I let them pass, and then its run, rabbit, run. On the slab I can see very well what is up ahead and predict fairly well what might happen. When traffic gets heavy I slow down with it, and make sure I keep a cushion. Yes, the idiots will constantly try and pull into that space. But you can usually tell who is going to play that game. I just let them, and they are gone shortly. Two lane divided is pretty good where I ride, but infested with Johnny Law, so just roll with traffic and leave enough room. The two-lane is semirural, has long stretchs between entrance/exits, etc. so its pretty safe. City is the worst, particularly two-lane in each direction with center turning lanes, lined with retail on each side. That is suicide. Either interstate, or rural is fine.
 
SMSW said:
Good to know. I wonder if we (when on bikes) should be riding in the center of the lane to be 'seen' by adaptive cruise sensors. Is there a 'sweet spot' for the radar?
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I tried testing it as I followed that rider, just to see. It was a smaller bike (I think an old Nighthawk?) which may have added to the issue, but it seemed to just flit in and out of the car knowing it was there.

It also kept triggering the pedestrian braking feature (which uses a separate camera), to the point I had to turn it off for the remainder of the drive.

@Uncle Phil seems to be on the same page as me. A good, attentive driver is going to be made safer by the adaptive cruise and automatic braking and whatnot. An inattentive driver is going to be complacent to the safety features, which probably leaves them safer than they were before. It's the ones in the middle of the pack that are getting the opportunity to develop bad habits and become bad drivers where it's reducing safety.
 
I'd be curious to know if there was something you could place on the back of the bike to enhance the adaptive cruise control's ability to "see" you. My understanding is that there are a number of different systems out there, some are radar, some laser and some camera based and others are a mix so it might be tough to find a magic bullet for all three absent pasting a whacking great billboard across the back of your bike.
 
Weaselinsuit said:
I'd be curious to know if there was something you could place on the back of the bike to enhance the adaptive cruise control's ability to "see" you. My understanding is that there are a number of different systems out there, some are radar, some laser and some camera based and others are a mix so it might be tough to find a magic bullet for all three absent pasting a whacking great billboard across the back of your bike.
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For so many of them, I think it's just that it needs to have a large enough footprint to be registered.

ST1300 with panniers? Nearly as wide as a Smart Fortwo.
 
I don't mind riding interstates, except for the construction delays. It's my usual route for travelling out of state, as I'm nearly always time-constrained.

As for the dangers, they have always been there, but I agree it's getting more congested and the dangers are more prevalent. But a good rider can avoid most of it by refusing to become complacent, always being aware of what's around and BEHIND him, and looking far ahead. I like the way Keith Code put it, years ago: "There is absolutely no reason for a motorcycle to ever hit something it didn't intend to."

A thread on ADVrider is ongoing about the car radar stuff, as related to not seeing riders. Tesla has come under fire again for a recent fatality, but I maintain the DRIVER should be in control of the car, rather than relying on driver aids or technology to keep them out of trouble.

There is also considerable debate on whether Tesla does, or does not, actually promote some of its driver aid gadgetry as "autonomous" driving mode. No matter. Just as a pilot, or a boat captain is, the operator of any vehicle is ultimately responsible for whatever happens while in that vehicle.
 
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