Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

[Dinkie Diesel]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I disagree with the 2nd part of that... This site will evolve or I'll turn off the lights.

I have no reason to doubt the man's word. Look how little Joey has evolved from Neanderthal to Hi-Viz. :crackup



Damn, I crack myself up!

 

[Mellow]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I have no reason to doubt the man's word. Look how little Joey has evolved from Neanderthal to Hi-Viz. :crackup



Damn, I crack myself up!

You really shouldn't drink so much on a weekday....

 

[sherob]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

You really shouldn't drink so much on a weekday....

Shouldn't drink so much... period.

 

[thumperjdm]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I need to stare at a Hi-Viz jacket for 24 hours just to get that picture out of my brain!!!

 

[George]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I can't help but wonder what Derek would be riding now.

 

[ST Gui]

Re: Replacement for ST1300 ?

ST bikes are more targeted at TOURing on a Sport-like bike

Whereas TS bikes, if there were such a thing, would be more targeted at SPORT-riding on a Touring-like bike. Enter the F6B. My buddy rides his 'Wing like it's an ST. It's unbelievable how fast and smooth he rides that 'Wing through some twisty stuff. It's a 2005 in yellow, and it's fun to see other bikes including a sport bike or two try to keep up.

Certainly no problem for good riders on sport bikes to keep up or pass, but anything less and they have their work cut out for them. The other amazing thing is that you'll never see his brake lights. He may use compression braking now and then, but smooth is how he rolls. None of this gas/brake/gas/brake that you see with a lot of lesser riders.

I once met two other riders like him, but they were on a Suzi and 750 Seca. Incredibly fast and smooth in the corners and sweepers, they kicked back on the straights where the lesser riders tried to catch up and make their play.

I'd like to see how the F6B does with that kind of riding style. For me, smooth beats helter-skelter any day.

 

[Badger]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I believe ST1300 will not die if necessary updates comes in time. BMW comes up with 6 cylinder tourer and it is selling. Goldwing is still here. Honda needs to direct the right bike to the right crowd with right gadgets.
I agree that crosstourer is a better choice macihine (also vfr1200f engine is a good engine indeed for now) than vfr1200f. It is more capable. But it lacks the sport section of a tourer and a bit lacking on wind protection. Still I can consider one if it becomes in USA.
I would like to see a sport tourer hopefully 600 to 650lb weight 140 rwhp, shaft driven, cruse controlled. If it can handle nice fire roads that would be perfect.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

If it can handle nice fire roads that would be perfect.

There ya go. Maybe you too will be assimilated. As the Borg say, 'resistance is futile'.

 

[ST13Fred]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Aptera was another green energy 3-wheeler project, (with US Dept of Energy loans), going belly up in 2011. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084753_100-mpg-hand-built-gasoline-powered-aptera-set-for-u-s
It was powered by a small diesel engine, also an electric motor powered by ultra capacitors and very expensive to buy; so failure was inevitable.

Because Elio has a simple conventional gasoline motor, is priced right, is hopefully backed by private money, it may have a better chance for survival.
But I'm so spoiled by Honda quality (design/fit/finish). Elio may be closer to an Ural in final form. But if the engineering is kept simple and it runs relatively quiet and is close to Honda quality, it may be worth a look.

 

[RCS]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

The ST is a dying model in a dying riding segment is what I say

Interesting. Can you name any other motorcycle worldwide that has a robust, well mannered, stable, and well attended forum like ST-Owners.com?

I agree that there are flashier motorcycles that are updated more regularly. Those machines are purchased mostly by motorcycle owners, not motorcycle riders. A good indicator/tell are the emotionally driven comments on other forums.

Motorcycle riders will own a ST1100 or ST1300 eventually.

 

[STPaulK]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Interesting. Can you name any other motorcycle worldwide that has a robust, well mannered, stable, and well attended forum like ST-Owners.com?

ADVRider.com is huge. The FJR and Vstrom are well represented by equally viable sites as well. I'd bet Beemer have some pretty big forums too.

 

[nhdiesel]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Interesting to note that the combined model count shows virtually no growth in sales since 2008 for the 1300, while there is ~600 unit growth YOY with the VFR. Couple that with the current 800 unit YOY growth of the NC700X, Honda might be seeing the writing on the wall for their expensive and heavy 1300 (at least in Europe.) I know, they could do the minor tweaks but they are probably putting their contained resources into bikes they know they will sell reasonably well.

BTW, this in no way makes me a Honda apologist. My analysis is my opinion on why I doubt you will ever see another 650 lb sport touring bike from Honda.

So because sales dropped for the HONDA ST segment, they shouldn't attempt a replacement ST? The sales dropped because IT IS A 10+ YEAR OLD DESIGN! Of course it isn't selling well! Apparently the brands who are spending millions updating their Sport Tourers, and the ones who have brought out brand new models, think there is profit to be made.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

ADVRider.com is huge. The FJR and Vstrom are well represented by equally viable sites as well. I'd bet Beemer have some pretty big forums too.

BMWsporttouring.com

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So because sales dropped for the HONDA ST segment, they shouldn't attempt a replacement ST? The sales dropped because IT IS A 10+ YEAR OLD DESIGN! Of course it isn't selling well! Apparently the brands who are spending millions updating their Sport Tourers, and the ones who have brought out brand new models, think there is profit to be made.

Popular models get updated because they are popular. Manufacturers don't wait until sales fall off. Remember that the development cycle is years ahead of the actual release of a new model into showrooms. But in this case, I would guess that sales in the entire sport touring segment dropped off enough after 2008 to cause them to change their minds about releasing a VFR1200T.

In January 2009 Hendrik Von Kuenheim, BMW Motorrad's General Director, was asked about the new touring lineup for BMW, "The sport-touring segment is shrinking; it's not a priority. Touring is successful enough, but it's still a small niche. Touring will be the next important platform update for us, after the superbike rollout. You will see something from us in one to one-and-a-half years -- a huge touring bike with many cylinders, huge torque and a low seat. That's all I'll say now." He's talking about the K1600.

 

[Bones]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Allow me to suggest a name for the next ST: The Conjecture.

 

[nhdiesel]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

But in this case, I would guess that sales in the entire sport touring segment dropped off enough after 2008 to cause them to change their minds about releasing a VFR1200T.

Any chance it's because they figured out touring riders don't want tiny tanks and racer riding positions?



Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BakerBoy]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I'd go for this name: PanAm Interstate Express. PIE for short.

 

[STPaulK]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So because sales dropped for the HONDA ST segment, they shouldn't attempt a replacement ST? The sales dropped because IT IS A 10+ YEAR OLD DESIGN! Of course it isn't selling well! Apparently the brands who are spending millions updating their Sport Tourers, and the ones who have brought out brand new models, think there is profit to be made.

The number of licensed FJR's in the UK has also stagnated since 2008 (no YOY growth). This despite Yamaha introducing very significant upgrades to this model in the same period. If I'm a bean counter at Honda, I would conclude there is no more return on an existing model that even has upgrades. At best, you keep existing customers happy but you are not growing the sales.

If this is also true for the Kaw and BMW ST lines, then I think it's a safe bet to conclude this market segment is no longer growing. If you're a marketing/sales VP at Honda, would you stick your neck out to pitch for R&D funding for a new model in a stagnant category? Probably not as you would go with cruisers, adventure bikes and sportbikes because this would be much less risky.

I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I'll ask this one more time. If the argument is that Honda is not selling the ST because it's outdated, then why did the dealers only carry only one or two when the model was new? Why do dealers only have one or two of any sport touring model on the floor next to 20 cruisers, 10 sportbikes and 5 adventure bikes? Even Gold Wings get more floor space than sport touring models.

 

[STPaulK]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Any chance it's because they figured out touring riders don't want tiny tanks and racer riding positions?

I believe the VFR1200T did have higher bars and a bigger tank than the F model (at least it appeared that way from the illustration.)

 

[Bug Dr.]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Interesting. Can you name any other motorcycle worldwide that has a robust, well mannered, stable, and well attended forum like ST-Owners.com?

I agree that there are flashier motorcycles that are updated more regularly. Those machines are purchased mostly by motorcycle owners, not motorcycle riders. A good indicator/tell are the emotionally driven comments on other forums.

Motorcycle riders will own a ST1100 or ST1300 eventually.

I think you've missed my point. I wasn't speaking of this forum but of the riding segment we call sport-tourers. Isn't it obvious that Honda doesn't think this niche is growing at a rate to justify bringing out a new model. This isn't a new idea given that the ST hasn't been updated in 11 years. Just look at how many people on this site have jumped ship and purchased other brands or models. It's all good though. The site is why we come here and the people are what makes it great.

For all of you new ST dreamers:
Someone please tell me why a publicly traded company would sink millions to design and develop a new model of motorcycle in order to sell a couple thousand models, most of which are not sold in the current model year produced but at a later year at a deep discount. Those that don't think the sport-touring niche is small to begin with and probably shrinking really need to wake up. We've never represented a very large segment of riding, especially in the US, aka the land of the cruisers.

Obviously, the adventure niche is growing and riders in this segment are given bikes like the GS/A, Super Tenerre, Tiger Explorer, etc... Honda produced a half-hearted effort to mimic the adventure style with the NC 700. I own one and like the bike but not because it is an adventure bike. I bought it for what it is.....a small city bike that is cheap and economical.

What frustrates me the most about Honda is their inability to bring bikes already in production in other parts of the world to the US. I concede that the cruiser market is where the money is and don't blame them for following the money trail that this group brings to their bottom line. Why in the world do we not have the Crosstourer as an option for purchase in this country? The motor has already been approved by the EPA because it is in the VFR. To me they are leaving money on the table as US riders are hungry for a viable Honda adventure bike. I'd sell both bikes I own if Honda could bring a true competitor to the GS to the US and not a half-arse attempt either Ma Honda.....we are watching you!
Mike