When doing timing belt

[Bigmak96]

I am wondering if there are two belts out there. We are using the Gates belt ( some of us are anyway) and there have been alignment issues. None with the OEM belt. Maybe the belt that Gates makes for general use is just a smidge different in tooth spacing than the generic Gates belt is. This would explain the alignment issue even tho the number of teeth is correct. Curious, yes, worth worrying about,,I'm not concerned. Prolly makes no more difference than if the carbs are not absolutely dead nuts synced. Being out that tiny amount would be hard to feel.

Too bad someone does not have both a new OEM and new Gates belt to accurately measure the I.D. to see if my guess here is worth more than the time it took to post this.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

I'll mail my old take-off OEM belt to anyone that wants to measure...

John

 

[DeanR]

The OEM I just removed measures 55 1/4 in. (with the teeth lying flat on a table and measuring the flat side).

 

[dwalby]

I am wondering if there are two belts out there. We are using the Gates belt ( some of us are anyway) and there have been alignment issues. None with the OEM belt. Maybe the belt that Gates makes for general use is just a smidge different in tooth spacing than the generic Gates belt is. This would explain the alignment issue even tho the number of teeth is correct. Curious, yes, worth worrying about,,I'm not concerned. Prolly makes no more difference than if the carbs are not absolutely dead nuts synced. Being out that tiny amount would be hard to feel.

Too bad someone does not have both a new OEM and new Gates belt to accurately measure the I.D. to see if my guess here is worth more than the time it took to post this.

My belt looked exactly like Dean's did, which I would describe as being just ever so slightly less than 1/2 tooth off, so this is not a mechanic competence issue, this is a belt dimension issue. My dad used to have a fan belt measuring tool decades ago, but that was to determine the belt size to within a much larger tolerance than what we're looking at. I guess we could cut both belts and then measure the overall length to within a mm or so and that might show the difference, but I don't know if anyone has a used Gates they would offer up to the cutting block.

FWIW, my bike runs no differently than before I changed the belt, same feel, same MPG, so this is really nothing more than an academic issue.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

The OEM I just removed measures 55 1/4 in. (with the teeth lying flat on a table and measuring the flat side).

Dean, my old OEM belt measures 19 1/8" between the driven pulley's marks (bottom of the valley on each side/outside of the 51 teeth) as shown in the picture I sent you. Also measured metric: 486mm. HTH



John

 

[DeanR]

Dean, my old OEM belt measures 19 1/8" between the driven pulley's marks (bottom of the valley on each side/outside of the 51 teeth) as shown in the picture I sent you. Also measured metric: 486mm. HTH



John

Exactly what I measure too John. Now for a Gates measurement for comparison.

 

[dwalby]

Exactly what I measure too John. Now for a Gates measurement for comparison.

Since his is the last one installed, I nominate Dean to take his Gates off and measure it.

 

[Brant]

I am wondering if there are two belts out there. We are using the Gates belt ( some of us are anyway) and there have been alignment issues. None with the OEM belt. Maybe the belt that Gates makes for general use is just a smidge different in tooth spacing than the generic Gates belt is. This would explain the alignment issue even tho the number of teeth is correct. Curious, yes, worth worrying about,,I'm not concerned. Prolly makes no more difference than if the carbs are not absolutely dead nuts synced. Being out that tiny amount would be hard to feel.

Too bad someone does not have both a new OEM and new Gates belt to accurately measure the I.D. to see if my guess here is worth more than the time it took to post this.

Not intended to be off topic, but several yrs. back, my son had put a new timing belt(Gates not OEM) on his Toyota Celica and by the time he drove the 800+ miles back to base the belt teeth had almost shredded. Had same measurements and number of cogs as original, but spacing was just off enough for its early demise. A "free-run" motor, no foul. Have heard of other occassional similar instances in the automotive world. There's just certain factory replacement components that better meet FACTORY specifications, specially where its needed most. On our STeeds, timing belt and carb boots IMO fall in that catagory.

 

[Bigmak96]

Not intended to be off topic, but several yrs. back, my son had put a new timing belt(Gates not OEM) on his Toyota Celica and by the time he drove the 800+ miles back to base the belt teeth had almost shredded. Had same measurements and number of cogs as original, but spacing was just off enough for its early demise. A "free-run" motor, no foul. Have heard of other occassional similar instances in the automotive world. There's just certain factory replacement components that better meet FACTORY specifications, specially where its needed most. On our STeeds, timing belt and carb boots IMO fall in that catagory.

Interesting. We have seen the difference in the two belts but to my knowledge, no one has posted that an 1100 belt (Gates) has failed.
When I get my idle 97 back on the road, I will have some time before it needs a belt. My 01 that John S. now has, has a Gates belt. I sincerely hope the issue of self destruction is limited to autos. Maybe their length and spacing is far more off than ours.

 

[dwalby]

Not intended to be off topic, but several yrs. back, my son had put a new timing belt(Gates not OEM) on his Toyota Celica and by the time he drove the 800+ miles back to base the belt teeth had almost shredded. Had same measurements and number of cogs as original, but spacing was just off enough for its early demise. A "free-run" motor, no foul. Have heard of other occassional similar instances in the automotive world. There's just certain factory replacement components that better meet FACTORY specifications, specially where its needed most. On our STeeds, timing belt and carb boots IMO fall in that catagory.

I'm no expert, but that sounds like its possible the belt was defective, or the perhaps the tensioner wasn't adjusted properly and there was some slack. If what your son experienced was common for Gates timing belts, they wouldn't be in the timing belt business for long. And no matter how crappy their belts, 800 miles is not likely to destroy one unless there's something else going on.

To the naked eye, the tooth spacing on the Gates belt for the ST fits perfectly into the cam sprockets, there's no way that's going to physically damage the belt.

 

[Brant]

I'm no expert, but that sounds like its possible the belt was defective, or the perhaps the tensioner wasn't adjusted properly and there was some slack. If what your son experienced was common for Gates timing belts, they wouldn't be in the timing belt business for long. And no matter how crappy their belts, 800 miles is not likely to destroy one unless there's something else going on.

To the naked eye, the tooth spacing on the Gates belt for the ST fits perfectly into the cam sprockets, there's no way that's going to physically damage the belt.

Just throwing out an example of aftermarket shortcomings at times. BTW, was never an issue after installing an OEM belt.

 

[DeanR]

Here are my marks with everything tightened, rotated, tensioned etc. Pretty darn close and feels fine. I do believe I'm done.

Except for the radiator (meaning that dxxx short upper hose to thermostat fitting).

 

[Bush]

Hmmmm . . . if you look really closely at that 3rd photo, the close up of the belt on pulley, it looks to my eyes like there is a tiny bit of a gap on the right side of every valley where the belt does not appear to be as tight against the pulley, as it is on the left side of each valley.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

I'd say you're good to go, Dean.

Are you having any fun yet?

Regards, John

via iPhone 4S

 

[970mike]

It looks like it is as close as possible to being right on the marks. Get it back together and go ride that thing.

 

[acedantinne]

Dean, if you counted teeth on the old belt and duplicated that during the new belt install the marks should align as before when the tensioning procedure is done. The belt will/should not 'stretch' in use.



Hmmm... whazat, Bob?

Regards, John

via iPhone 4S

John it is a Honda shop too; used to hold & move cam sprockets. Not much of a tool so to speak. Will take a picture & post later. Oh, works very good. Also, used to hold clutch outers baskets on older Hondas.

 

[acedantinne]

Dean, the last picture U took looks like the Xing marks are closer? But I'm in Easton, Pa. & your in upstate, NY.
Your first picture U took it was off a tooth per picture count. Mark/tooth on cam sprocket.
I believe Tmoney has his old Honda belt. Looks like new? That was the last 1 I replaced. The marks fell dead on.

 

[DeanR]

Dean, the last picture U took looks like the Xing marks are closer?

Yep. Covers go on today and then I wrestle with the stupid radiator to thermostat hose (can't wait).

 

[DeanR]

Good to go. Ran to the grocery store today.

Thanks to all for all the advice both on this thread and my coolant hose thread. Hope others got some helpful tips as well..

Gotta tackle the alternator next, one of these days.

 

[Brant]

Good to hear you got it all glued back together Dean!