Q for guys who've crashed

[dwalby]

I did notice the "laid it down" line in the OP. Why can't people just admit that they fell from loss of control rather than trying a "loud pipes save lives" type fallacy to explain why they did something?

I can't say I disagree entirely with that statement, but since this is a crashing thread let me tell you about my one experience with "laying it down". Given my familiarity with crashing, I have a fairly good knowledge of how far a body with proper protective equipment slides or tumbles after hitting the ground at various speeds. Having practiced emergency stopping many times, I know what a locking front wheel feels like. The one thing I don't have much experience with is how far does a fully locked front wheel slide before the bike finally stops at various speeds, or how much distance elapses when you unlock the front and reapply the brakes.

So here's my scenario, I was traveling about 40-45 mph when a Toyota truck pulled out of a parking lot directly into my path. I had no way to go around him, I had to slam on the brakes, which I did. This was on a FZR1000, which had very good brakes, so I slowed down fairly quickly. But the available stopping distance was short. It all happens in slow motion, but I had enough time to think. As I approached his front door, traveling at maybe 10mph, I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to stop without impacting the truck. I also wasn't sure if my front tire was going to lock up before I was fully stopped, if that happened I know I'd have run into him. I was sure that if I bailed off at that speed, at that distance (8-10 ft or so), I wouldn't impact the truck. So at that point I turned the bars full lock and lost the front. I bounced a couple of feet, and the bike slid under the back of the truck. I got up, retrieved the bike, pushed it into the parking lot, and collected his insurance info.

So, I "laid it down" and was happy with the result. I chose that option because it was the only option that I knew I could predict the result. I knew it was his fault, so trying to avoid doing damage to the bike was of no concern.

I get what you're saying about some riders being able to stop in time, but due to lack of skill they do the wrong thing and cause a crash that could have been avoided, that wasn't the case this time. I would claim that there are some exceptions to the line of thought that causing a controlled crash is always proof of rider error and/or lack of skill. I was as good a rider as anybody at that time, it was a simple case of choosing the lesser of several evils.

 

[ST1100Y]

I was traveling about 40-45 mph when a Toyota truck pulled out of a parking lot directly into my path.

Out of interest: did you use the horn of your FZR to get the driver's awareness, hopefully causing him to stop, or choose to "go down silently"?

 

[GSMetal]

As with many things, it all depends on the person.

As a kid, our bicycles were woven into the fabric of who we were and what we did. Everything revolved around riding our bicycles. I grew up in the late 60's / early 70's so we were exposed to Evel Knievel - we were always building ramps and jumping something (or someone), doing stunts and yes, crashing and getting hurt. But it never stopped us. It was just a fact of life.

A kid a couple houses over got a speedometer for his bike and was going down this big hill seeing how fast he could go. He was watching the speedo (not paying attention to the road) when he slammed into a parked car. He did report that he was doing 20 MPH when the collision occurred.

Months later, that same kid showed up at my door with a little Honda Trail 50 - and that's where I was hooked. The fun of twisting the throttle and being able to go 30 MPH with no effort was not lost on me.

I'm 53 and have been riding since I was about 22. I don't ride as much as I used to because of life and work. I've been in two motorcycle accidents (both minor, more like "incidents") but I can't imagine not having a motorcycle in my life.

 

[gmast1100]

Well, my second one was a major one. First one May, 1980, on an Air Force base. Guy didn't stop at a stop sign. I hit right behind left front fender. 79 Wing totaled.

Latest was Oct 13 on my way to OkieSTOC. Was traveling 55 mph, in the left lane, when I was hit from behind by an uncaring cager who was traveling very fast. I was on my 91 ST1100 pulling an Aspen camping trailer. When he hit me I flew off the bike and went through the right lane of traffic. Not sure how I didn't get hit? I slid 150 on my back but I always ride ATGATT and I saved me. However, after signing a release to get out of the ambulance, had to call my wife to collect my camping gear that was spread all over, I went home to shower. Immediately after the shower I said we need to go to the ER. Ended up with a bunch of broken ribs and a broken scaphoid. Ribs healed over time but tried to heal the scaphoid with casts. No go, so had surgery. I was out of commission for a year. Fortunate to be pulling the trailer to take up the impact or I wouldn't be here today!

Got compensation for bike, trailer, and riding gear. As for injuries, took forever as had to wait for final ok from doc on my hand. Once got that, his insurance paid the law suit and after paying attorney, all medical bills, Medicare/TriCareforLife, wasn't much left for my pain/suffering. Definitely wasn't worth what I went through but what ya gonna do?

As my wife and I had been riding on two bikes for the past 38 years, she said she was done and I could have her ST. I got a new camping trailer and later sold the ST as I had bought a Wing, only my 7th one.

So how was it to get back on? Well, after being off for the whole year, I really missed it. So now I'm back riding and enjoying it.

Gary

 

[dwalby]

Out of interest: did you use the horn of your FZR to get the driver's awareness, hopefully causing him to stop, or choose to "go down silently"?

he didn't see me, so he pulled right in front of me instantly (broadside, so both lanes were blocked for other evasive options). Using the horn was a non-issue. If he had moved into my path slowly enough and far enough away that the horn would have been an option, and he could have reacted, I wouldn't be telling this story, I'd have stopped well short of his truck. I had just enough time to hit the brakes hard and slow myself down to avoid a full on collision. Probably similar to what others here report with deer running into the road right in front of them. It was like a second or two of reaction time, that's all.

Since your comment has a semi-accusatory tone to it, I'll add that most street riders would have probably center punched him at a much higher speed. At that time I was riding every day, my skills were as good as the best riders out there. On that bike I could lift the rear wheel off the ground under hard braking without locking the wheel (non-ABS). I've spent enough time riding with people of various skill levels to know my relative skill level, and I was probably in the top 5%. I used every bit of those skills to get the minimal outcome that resulted. I wouldn't make that same claim today, I don't ride as much or as often as I used to, and I don't practice emergency braking, etc. like I used to.

 

[ST1100Y]

Since your comment has a semi-accusatory tone to it...

That wasn't the intention at all, but all the accident reports here rarely mention use of horn, despite that its the favourite farkle...

Being smacked from the sides in urban traffic (only plastic damage, the ST is too much of a hulk to get thrown over easily while in motion) I can relate to the sudden, unforeseeable, but in numberless situations use of the horns is the lifesaver...

 

[dwalby]

That wasn't the intention at all, but all the accident reports here rarely mention use of horn, despite that its the favourite farkle...

... but in numberless situations use of the horns is the lifesaver...

Doesn't surprise me, if you have time to use the horn, and the other driver has time to respond to it, you probably had plenty of time to avoid the accident entirely. There was no accident to report because the horn did its job. When things happen too fast to avoid an accident, there's no time for a horn to serve any useful purpose.

A video would be worth a thousand words, the time between when he entered my path and the time of impact was probably 3 seconds total. Two seconds of panic braking, one second of bailoff time while the bike continued on without me.

 

[sah48]

Totaled my 2005 ST1300 in December 2015 when someone pulled across my lane because he "didn't see me" and I hit him broadside.
Bought another 2005 this May and discovered the ribs were still a little tender but was very glad to be back on the road again. I am still hyper-alert when crossing an intersection or seeing a car in a driveway getting ready to come out into the road but loving the ride.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

Doesn't surprise me, if you have time to use the horn, and the other driver has time to respond to it, you probably had plenty of time to avoid the accident entirely. There was no accident to report because the horn did its job. When things happen too fast to avoid an accident, there's no time for a horn to serve any useful purpose.

I use my horn for pretty much just one thing...waking up sleepers at traffic lights.
Many close calls in traffic were avoided by swerving. You MUST be aware of traffic in your 5 or 7 o'clock positions. Some few were avoided by braking hard. In neither case did I ever feel that I had time to honk.

Back to the PO' question: I've had one crash on the road. I was back on as soon as I was able to get a replacement. Lots of analysis in the meantime, mostly about what I could have done better. Take it as a learning opportunity. We don't all react the same way to an emergency. Your response can be improved by formal training and practicing your traffic analysis skills. Refresher MC safety courses are a good thing...it's amazing what you can forget over the course of time, even just a year or so.

 

[ST1100Y]

Doesn't surprise me, if you have time to use the horn, and the other driver has time to respond to it, you probably had plenty of time to avoid the accident entirely.

I'd many very close calls where blaring the horns (and use of PASS) gave just the second & few inches to clear without being harmed...
Typical scenarios are cabs pulling out a stand (driver distracted/stressed by radio call), cagers popping out a parking spot/attempting to change lane right over you/almost running a yield/stop-sign, the oh so popular oncoming + turning left vehicle (preferable without use of turn-signals), cell-phone-zombie pedestrians staggering out onto the road, etc... (a newly developed, common game/fashion is to push a baby-buggy +3ft out onto the road *before* looking for approaching vehicles... attempted delayed abortion? I donno... )
And our roads/architecture/traffic density doesn't give much space to just swerve around all and everything...

 

[2turbos]

I got crossed up and high sided in a construction zone. Long story but i got a week's of sheet time. Five ribs broken in six places.
In the hospital I had plenty of time to think about riding again.
The conclusion? Get back on the horse that bit me!
So the best therapy was repairing the ST and doing the PT to get back on the road again.
So there's an element of conquering fear, realizing what mistakes were made and how fast a situation can get out of control, knowing your bike's and your limitations.
It sucks that these lessons had to be learned this way but the main thing is lessons were learned and I'm a better rider because of it.
this kind of decision, weather to continue to ride or not is up to you, everyone decides for themselves. There are risks and rewards and for me, the rewards outweigh the risks.

 

[JQL]

It is better to use the horn and/or long flash of the lights prior to them moving. If they've started moving and they genuinely haven't seen you, it's sometimes better not to use the horn/lights but aim for where they were/are as, by the time you get there, it'll be clear. If you use the horn they'll stop and you'll hit them.

Situational awareness and interpretting the signs is everything (but difficult to master).

 

[George]

My wife and I totaled our '91 ST1100 in 2004. It was just before WeSTOC and I was antsy to get back on a bike. As soon as I learned it was totaled I went out and bought an '04 ST1300. Rode it to WeSTOC a month or so after that. Two things happened after the wreck. It took about a year for me to be completely comfortable on the bike. It also took a year before my wife would get back on the bike. We hit transmission fluid which caused us to go down. I found myself looking just in front of the bike checking for oil. That effected my ability to ride properly.

Put your insurance settlement in the bank and give it some time. If the itch comes back use it to get a new bike when you're ready. If you never feel like riding again so be it....

I bought Adam's "totalled" 91 and put another 130,000 miles on it. When the block cracked, I bought an 01 ABS and that's the bike I crashed back in April. I rode a borrowed bike the next day, no problem. Since then, I've bought an 83 'Wing and done some significant work on it, rode it round trip to Chicago twice and 3 round trips to Evansville (all from Vincennes, IN). Other than those trips, tho, haven't really ridden much and can't say I miss it. Locally, I'm just as likely to ride a bicycle. And, projects at home have taken priority. On that note, tho, the air and 'lectric tools I've been using are probably more dangerous than the bike.

I freely admit I'm not really missing the rides right now.

 

[SupraSabre]

I have to add my two cents!

I have had two major crashes. (And two minor which I will not talk about here.)

My first major crash I had was back in 1987, when I had a front end wobble at 85MPH and got it down to 65MPH before being ejected when the bike went lock to lock. The next morning, after suffering second degree burns on elbows and knees, I rode the bike from the tow yard to the dealer, about three to four miles. The bike was totaled by the insurance co., I bought it back, sold it and bought my next bike within a month.

My second accident was back in April 2008. I got hit in freeway construction area, moving at 25mph. The bike should have been totaled and it would have been if they would have caught all the damage at one time, instead of three. But, I had the bike back and running in three weeks (although it took me a few weeks after that to straighten out what the dealer didn't fix right) and then, in the middle of June 2008, rode almost 3,700 miles with Byron to WeSTOC 2008 out in Taos NM.

And now, I have four ST1300s, if one was to get damaged and I'm still able to ride, I will continue to ride. I have to, if you saw my commute, you would too, because finding a new job at 64, is really not much of an option!

But you need to do what is best for you! If you don't feel comfortable riding, like someone already said, put your money away for awhile and see if you get the itch again. If you don't, so be it! Good luck with which ever way you decide to go!

 

[wjbertrand]

I've only had two crashes in my 45 years of riding that gave me some pause about getting back in the saddle. The first was when I was in college and rode up to a local lake to party with some friends. A combination of too little skill, too many beers, too much speed and a twisty dark road had me high-siding my RD350 out into a field at 55 MPH. No broken bones but a massive hematoma (hematomato?) caused by a bleed in my left hip, that spread to my whole upper left leg, stopping only at the knee. Required a minor procedure to go in an cauterize the traumatized vein and then several weeks of "extraction therapy" which consisted of a warm circulating bath with additives designed to extract the minerals left by the bleed that had gotten into my left knee joint. I think this is in-part why I have such bad arthritis in that knee. I remember the doc telling me the extraction treatments were an attempt to prevent that. I tried to sell the bike as it was but when there were no takers I figured I'd repair the crash damage and try again. That repair/rebuild process turned out to be cathartic, even symbolic. I eventually got past this one by realizing that I needed to improve my skills and never again drink and ride. I also came to the realization that the throttle actually had positions between off and WFO.

Second time was just a short of 3 years ago when I was taken out by an inattentive, lane changing Porsche driver on my way home from work. I was kinda hugging the right side of the left lane which was moving 40-45 MPH past a more or less stopped right lane. The driver very suddenly and aggressively jumped from the slower lane into mine without looking. I was more or less just moving into a position to pass her, so no time to react. Totaled my ST and bruised the hell out of the whole left side of my body where I guess I initially landed on the ground. The worst though was the whiplash injury to my neck which is still not totally gone. The thought of hanging it up was strongly considered, mostly because I was less able to identify what I'd done wrong or could improve. I finally decided that motorcycling had brought me way too many good times and good folks to walk away from it. I've definitely made some adjustments to my riding and have consciously changed to riding on the opposite side of the lane when my lane is moving faster than the adjacent one. Hopefully that would allow some time to react if a similar event ever happens again.

 

[sleepngbear]

Thank you guys. You have no idea how helpful this is to me. Please keep them coming -- believe it or not, seeing what others have been through and how you've dealt with it is actually somewhat therapeutic.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Early on in my riding 'career', I got taken out by a drunk coming from a VFW. He hit two inches behind my right leg and I found that jeans and a light jacket last about 30 seconds on asphalt. Fortunately I was wearing a helmet which looked like somebody had taken an ice cream scoop and scooped out stuff - nobody had to convince me to wear helmet after that. When I got paid, I bough a larger motorcycle. I have taken one of my ST1100s off a curve at some speed (I missed the curve sign as I came over the hill). There was a plowed field in front of me with no fence so based on my prior experience, I chose dirt over asphalt. The problem was the ground was lower than the road so we got really airborne. I tried to ride it out but when the front forks compressed and released, I was tossed like a ball. I rolled when I hit and came out fine. Redbird (and hence the name since she now flew) landed in a furrow and stayed upright. I put on one of the saddlebags that came loose, snapped the mirror covers back one, and rode her out of the field and am still riding her. Lessons learned?

1. Don't ride past what you can see.
2. If you ain't focused, stop til you are focused.
3. If your gut is in knot, your brain is telling you that you are riding above your ability.
4. Cut the wire that runs from your ego to your right hand and you'll probably stay off the ground.
5. You ain't nearly as good a rider as you think you are.
6. It only takes a few moments of 'stupid' to cause a whole lot of hurt and a bike is no place to get a case of it.

My best riding friend in the world (since bicycle days) lost his lower right leg while riding 3 miles from his house - SUV blew through a stop sign with little insurance. I took him to get his new Ducati Scrambler a while back. We had a lot of talks about this very subject during the healing process. As I told him then, he is my best friend and part of my life whether he ever swung a leg back over a motorcycle or not.

My advice to you -

If your heart ain't in it, your head ain't in it. If your head ain't in it, your body don't need to be in it.
You have to decide what works for you and only you can decide.
Just be honest with yourself.
And remember that time changes things.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

Early on in my riding 'career', I got taken out by a drunk coming from a VFW. He hit two inches behind my right leg and I found that jeans and a light jacket last about 30 seconds on asphalt. Fortunately I was wearing a helmet which looked like somebody had taken an ice cream scoop and scooped out stuff - nobody had to convince me to wear helmet after that. When I got paid, I bough a larger motorcycle. I have taken one of my ST1100s off a curve at some speed (I missed the curve sign as I came over the hill). There was a plowed field in front of me with no fence so based on my prior experience, I chose dirt over asphalt. The problem was the ground was lower than the road so we got really airborne. I tried to ride it out but when the front forks compressed and released, I was tossed like a ball. I rolled when I hit and came out fine. Redbird (and hence the name since she now flew) landed in a furrow and stayed upright. I put on one of the saddlebags that came loose, snapped the mirror covers back one, and rode her out of the field and am still riding her. Lessons learned?

1. Don't ride past what you can see.
2. If you ain't focused, stop til you are focused.
3. If your gut is in knot, your brain is telling you that you are riding above your ability.
4. Cut the wire that runs from your ego to your right hand and you'll probably stay off the ground.
5. You ain't nearly as good a rider as you think you are.
6. It only takes a few moments of 'stupid' to cause a whole lot of hurt and a bike is no place to get a case of it.

My best riding friend in the world (since bicycle days) lost his lower right leg while riding 3 miles from his house - SUV blew through a stop sign with little insurance. I took him to get his new Ducati Scrambler a while back. We had a lot of talks about this very subject during the healing process. As I told him then, he is my best friend and part of my life whether he ever swung a leg back over a motorcycle or not.

My advice to you -

If your heart ain't in it, your head ain't in it. If your head ain't in it, your body don't need to be in it.
You have to decide what works for you and only you can decide.
Just be honest with yourself.
And remember that time changes things.

Well put Uncle Phil.

 

[rjs987]

Gotta post here too (I did also on the CTX1300 forum). on all that is said prior. It is ultimately your decision. Your "boss" may have good insight on your state of mind and true desire (they tend to have a lot of insight, more than I do anyway).
I mentioned to you before that I crashed my ST1100 at my first STOC event. A low side that was caused by me not seeing the large brass lock in the lane on a hairpin turn that my front tire took a ride on. I saw the gravel, but not the lock (hence the new meaning for the event to me at least... LOCSTOC). That shook me up realizing as I looked at the damage to my gear what could have been if not for that protection. That also shook my confidence in right hand turns for a little while. One thing that helped me get over it and keep riding is that I didn't have a lot of choice until I got back home... 250+ miles away. And that was after we all returned from that ride. My accident was half way along and at the farthest (almost) away from home camp. I had to climb back on to ride the 1/4 mile to the planned regathering point and rested a bit, gathering my wits, before we moved on in a group. I pushed myself to keep on going if even being very cautious in those turns to the right no matter how tight and eventually, by the time we returned to camp, I was mostly over it. I was still not back to "normal" for turns for a few weeks, maybe months. But I knew by the time I had put on another 350+ miles getting home (including the rest of that ride) that I wasn't done with riding. Obviously the bike wasn't totaled but the cost of repair was close to it. Like others have said, I did the repairs myself and that was therapeutic as much as the ride home. I know for now that I just want to keep riding.

It's the same for any activity. When I was really young I almost drowned in a river. Then later I was a competitive swimmer. I was OK for my event. In my area I won some and lost some. I didn't let loosing decide if I was to continue or not. I just decided one day that it didn't hold the interest for me that it used to so I stopped. My terms. I really don't swim much any more. No problem with it, just no interest. Someday I know will be the same for riding.

The main thing I took away from that is I will stop riding when I decide I don't want to anymore, and not because something that happened made up my mind for me. It's my choice on my terms. Just like it's your choice on your terms. That's not to say you can't decide to hang up your helmet now, or that you just have to keep riding if your heart isn't in it. Just saying make it on your terms and not the bike's or some event. It may be the right opportunity now, or not. We can't say that for you. But these are our experiences just the same. Hope they do help.

 

[TourNut]

After riding since 1971 , I had 1 crash in 2010 at 45 mph , where a young jerk on a cell phone came out of a used car lot on the right & tried to ram me broadside , but I hit the brakes hard enough that he "missed me" from a broadside & I just hit his left front fender instead , almost stopped . Stayed up but almost went over his hood but handlebar caught my legs . Broke front fender and shorted out the battery on a '05 Shadow Aero 750. Fixed the bike when the new fender arrived and kept on riding.
2013 : ST1300 : Deer jumped up out of a ditch , doe's face got within a foot of my left elbow , then CB antenna thwacked her around her snout , bending & fracturing CB mount brackets - I was lucky that time.
2015 : ST1300 : On I-80 , Iowa , ~ 75 mph , Chatterbox brand , Chinese made , Theft alarm module turned the ignition OFF , then trying to get off the interstate , my tire got caught in DEEP rumble strips and deflected me sideways as I went on my right side off the pavement & into the weeds. Then memory is gone until it fades back in as paramedics are trying to get me off my feet & into ambulance . All the people "suddenly there" surprised me , random people , Iowa highway patrol , paramedics & their vehicles . Memory never came back of the time in between there . Bike was only scraped up plastic ~ $2700 of parts , & bent guards but insurance was trying to total it ! ; I said no way & fixed it myself - still with clean title . The front end , steering & frame were not touched with only 16K miles on the odo. I , however had a concussion & separated collar bone end up out of my shoulder joint , Even though I had 3 of the same shoulder operations , first 2 failed by incompetent surgeon. I had the ST back together & riding after the first failed surgery was by then obvious. But had to wait since the day before the second surgery 11-10-2015 to June 9th 2016 to ride any of the 3 bikes again which was REALLY hard for me. Bad Michigan roads will make my shoulder ache a little still , But I'm still wanting to ride at 63 - If I give it up , then what am I supposed to do, sit on my butt for the rest of my life and do nothing , like my Dad did for 29 years ? Naw !