Need water pump should I do clutch too

[TMUS]

Ok, water pump leaking, going to install new. Question: 06 has 103,000 should I also do the clutch while in there?

 

[roginoz]

It's probably not necessary, unless you've experienced symptoms of a worn clutch. My '05 had more miles than your bike when I replaced the water pump. I ordered clutch plates "just in case," as I didn't want to have another week of downtime if they were needed. Once the bike was apart, I measured my old clutch plates. They were halfway between the new thickness and the service limit specified in the shop manual. Since I already had the new parts, and the front of the engine was off, I installed the new clutch plates and springs. Based on my experience, the clutch should be good for 200K miles.

 

[Scooter]

Similar experience to Roger's. Replaced my pump last spring at 150k. Found the clutch plates about half worn but the springs were at their service limit so I ended up just changing those out. Clutch plate life is highly dependent on how you ride. I would just measure the plates once you open it up and order replacements if needed. They're pretty easy to access once that front cover's off...

 

[SupraSabre]

I had 116K on my '05 bike and had it down for the waterpump. I went ahead and put a used clutch in (~10K on it) I couldn't believe the difference it made. I didn't know my clutch was getting that bad. One thing about my clutches, I commute 125 miles a day and a lot of that is in slow and go traffic, lots of lane splitting and gear shifting! So maybe mine was worn worse than others, but if I'm in there for the waterpump, and the bike has more than 50K, I'll be replacing the clutch!

 

[dduelin]

I had 116K on my '05 bike and had it down for the waterpump. I went ahead and put a used clutch in (~10K on it) I couldn't believe the difference it made. I didn't know my clutch was getting that bad. One thing about my clutches, I commute 125 miles a day and a lot of that is in slow and go traffic, lots of lane splitting and gear shifting! So maybe mine was worn worse than others, but if I'm in there for the waterpump, and the bike has more than 50K, I'll be replacing the clutch!

What was the difference? I'm 50k beyond your replacement and my clutch feels like it always did although wear does creep up unnoticed. Other than the obvious slipping or chattering I'm not sure I know what a worn clutch feels like. Almost every ride I practice slow speed maneuvers slipping the clutch against the brake and the friction zone feels like always.

 

[Igofar]

What was the difference? I'm 50k beyond your replacement and my clutch feels like it always did although wear does creep up unnoticed. Other than the obvious slipping or chattering I'm not sure I know what a worn clutch feels like. Almost every ride I practice slow speed maneuvers slipping the clutch against the brake and the friction zone feels like always.

They wear slowly and do creep up unnoticed, and you don't really feel the difference until you replace them. As stated in a prior response, often times the plates are still good, but the springs go out of spec.
I would consider it money well spent to at least replace the springs.
Dave, you should try your slow speed maneuvers with ONLY your clutch, and not touch or ride against your brakes. Several courses will not allow you to use your brakes at all, if they see your brake light, you fail.
While several folks teach to use the throttle/brakes to remain in the friction zone, the better riders pin the throttle and just use the clutch (see cone rodeo's for example). This really does bring your riding skill up a notch or two.

 

[ST Gui]

slow speed maneuvers with ONLY your clutch, and not touch or ride against your brakes. Several courses will not allow you to use your brakes at all, if they see your brake light, you fail.
While several folks teach to use the throttle/brakes to remain in the friction zone, the better riders pin the throttle and just use the clutch (see cone rodeo's for example).

My buddy (just retired after 40yrs as a motor officer and instructor) was the motor Sgt. for the local sheriff's office. He'd take motor officer candidates and teach them to ride before sending them to Motor School. He was also responsible for perishable-skills training afterwards.

The above is exactly how he was trained and how he'd pre-train his guys. "The brakes are not your friend." His people always did well in training and on the street.

 

[dduelin]

They wear slowly and do creep up unnoticed, and you don't really feel the difference until you replace them. As stated in a prior response, often times the plates are still good, but the springs go out of spec.
I would consider it money well spent to at least replace the springs.
Dave, you should try your slow speed maneuvers with ONLY your clutch, and not touch or ride against your brakes. Several courses will not allow you to use your brakes at all, if they see your brake light, you fail.
While several folks teach to use the throttle/brakes to remain in the friction zone, the better riders pin the throttle and just use the clutch (see cone rodeo's for example). This really does bring your riding skill up a notch or two.

Thanks Larry. I'll try that. As I'm sure you know it's not necessary to ride the brake all the time in slow speed maneuvers and I don't but I'll try and not use it at all and see how that goes.

The question of using engine thrust against the brake is not the point of my comment and Larry's reply, rather that the clutch in my bike has not been used for just starting, shifting, and stopping but has lots of extra use slipping in the friction zone it's entire life.

But to the question that the OP and I posed, what specifically can I be looking for in regards to how a worn clutch feels in a ST1300? On my '05 the take up point off the bar is that of a ST1300 with 20,000 miles I recently rode, the take-up is smooth and progressive, there's no slip or chatter, the bike as recently as a few hundred miles ago pulled 142 on the GPS. To me there is no reason to go into it and open the engine for clutch R & R if it remains in good working order. I just wondered what to expect from those that have actually worn out a clutch on these bikes.

 

[SupraSabre]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to "knowing" when it's time to replace a clutch, but that was one time I could really feel the difference. Before I replaced that clutch, it really didn't feel like it was slipping as much as it just felt a little mushy (probably because it was slipping). But, I really didn't realize it until after I put the new clutch in. And Byron and I checked the springs and at least half were out of spec.

Now, one thing I would like to say about the low speed training and all. Most cops do not have to replace their clutches. So all of that practice and what have you, while wearing down their clutch, they just aren't worried about it. Me on the other hand, I really don't want to be yanking off that front cover any more than I need, so I'm not going out and practice like that. I took a low speed training course a few years back. Quite informative!

And I know many feel like daily commuting on a motorcycle (including all the Lane Splitting) is not much fun, the one thing I feel it does is to keep my skills up. Sheesh, I put more miles on motorcycles these days than I do on my cages!

 

[Igofar]

I've always put more miles on my bike(s) than on my cages

 

[Igofar]

A simple way to tell if your clutch is slipping, is to put it in a higher gear faster than normal, then wick the throttle open and watch the RPM, if the RPM climb and you don't feel the bike pulling hard, your clutch is slipping.

 

[Al Gully]

I've got the same analogy as some as you here. When I rotate my tires on my truck, I always check the brake pads. So when changing a water pump with high mileage, dive into checking the clutch and related components.
For the guys that have done the water pump, clutch, steels and springs on the 1300, what were the parts you needed up front along with all gaskets seals and fluids. This should help some of us that are coming up to the mileage when the water pump starts leaking.

 

[TMUS]

Similar experience to Roger's. Replaced my pump last spring at 150k. Found the clutch plates about half worn but the springs were at their service limit so I ended up just changing those out. Clutch plate life is highly dependent on how you ride. I would just measure the plates once you open it up and order replacements if needed. They're pretty easy to access once that front cover's off...

That's what I was going to do at the minimum. Thank all

Tim

 

[T_C]

Last week on my morning commute, about two miles from the house I came to a stoplight. Upon takeoff... sever clutch chatter. Pulled in, released a second time, all fine. Forty miles later, I give the clutch a good test waiting in the line (2 miles of stop-go) to get on-base. Never anything but smooth clutch.

Earlier last summer, twice in about a two day period it did a similar thing. I just thought I was overloading the clutch.

But this latest morning, no excessive take-off power, no excessive weight.
Is this the signs of clutch springs going? 113K on the bike.

 

[SupraSabre]

... no excessive weight.
....

You weren't sitting on it then?

 

[TMUS]

Mine does shudder a little on take off, I will replace the springs first. Thanks all

 

[SupraSabre]

Mine does shudder a little on take off, I will replace the springs first. Thanks all

And if that doesn't work, then you'll have to OPEN it back up and replace the plates! DO IT WHILE IT'S OPEN!

It might cost a few bucks more, but ripping back into it is worse!

 

[TMUS]

And if that doesn't work, then you'll have to OPEN it back up and replace the plates! DO IT WHILE IT'S OPEN!

It might cost a few bucks more, but ripping back into it is worse!

Fine, deep down I agree with you. It never works out for me cutting corners and or time.

 

[SupraSabre]

Fine, deep down I agree with you. It never works out for me cutting corners and or time.

Sorry to be so harsh, but if it's opened up, just do it all. Now, about that waterpump.....

I replaced the propeller and the seals/bearings, but I'm not sure if that is really necessary. Larry might be able to guide you there. Just make sure you have the proper measurements on the shaft to the bearings. Some of the early manuals had that measurement incorrect! And without my manual handy I don't remember what it is....24mm for some reason is sticking in my brain....

 

[Igofar]

I came up with this Idea/tool for pressing in the waterpump....
For those of you who like to do their own service work, I have found a really neat and cost effective way to make a tool for pressing in the water pump shaft.
Go to your nearest Harley Davidson dealer and order a front wheel spacer to a late model Heritage softail classic.
The late models use a 25mm axle, and the wheel spacers are steel, not the aftermarket aluminum ones.
The spacer is 25mm wide, and by removing 1mm, either by file or lathe, you end up with a perfect 24mm tool. You can use a simple Arbor press (harbor freight sells a cheap one) then you can simply insert the water pump through the cover, with the shaft pointing up, then place the 24mm spacer over the shaft, the gently use the arbor press to press the shaft down until it is flush with the spacer.
With this spacer, an arbor press, and some basic tools, along with the article on this forum, one can remove and replace the water pump and save themselves about $600.00 dollars at the shop.
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