Two-up riding for a newbie

Lager said:
Best thing to tell them is to sit still, don't try to correct the lean angle just go with it..
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+1 But they do that because they don't understand the physics involved. All the experts forget they were not born bicycle or motorcycle riders. It's a learned skill. So is being a passenger.

Start out slow. Don't scare the n00b. I remember so many guys enjoying scaring the GIB (Girl In Back) and then yelling at them because they squirmed. Move slow and corner slow.

As the OP's wife hasn't made any major faux pas getting them hurt I'd say head for a big open industrial parking lot on a Sunday. No concrete chocks just smooth asphalt. Ride from point A to point B in a more or less straight line but doing shallow gentle weaves almost but not like cone practice. Then try large circles and graduate to large figure 8s. On a nice day in a wide open space I'd probably do this without (yes without) helmets so you can easily communicate your intentions. Tighten things up a little at a time and pickup speed a little at it time.

Having your wife lean against you reduces the likelihood of involuntary 'assistance' until she gets her 'bike balance'. Bumper helmets may be an issue. A backrest would be a big help.

The quality of ability of a pillion to 'passenger' is a product of the quality of the rider's ability to ride. You need to build and instill trust and confidence.

Anybody who can't do that shouldn't endanger another by letting them be a passenger and doesn't deserve a one anyway.
 
Don't know if this has already been covered but when it's time for Er'Indoors to climb off (those thinking it, stop it), switch off first, leave it in first gear, hold the front brake with both feet down, put side stand down with the bike resting against the gear so no forward movement is allowed even if you have to let the brake go. Then let her or him climb off.
If you are unbalanced at this stage (physically not mentally) the worst that can happen is a drop onto the stand. My other arf will always ask before getting on or off (I said, stop it) and it just means any sudden moves won't cause any unwanted action (I'M NOT TELLING YOU AGAIN).
Upt'North.
Edit, leaving it in gear on the sidestand will mean it won't roll off the stand and when you restart it you can do so in gear and no horrible, kerrrrchuuukkkkkk. Also when pillion climbs aboard try to park next to a kerb etc, it'll be much smoother for the climb aboard if the pillion is closer to the peg.
 
ad.hom said:
If I have to tell them that, they're not welcome on the back of the bike. I might think about letting them into the passenger seat in the car.

The only passengers I accept are immediate family or other bikers. Risk value is too high otherwise.
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I never took my kids on the bike. One is 28 now, I just could not risk being shot by my wife if something would happen to them.:box1:
 
Larry Fine said:
Roth, welcome. Before I add my .02, how long have you been riding?
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I've got a good 10 + years riding under my belt, but spread out over the last twenty. My last bike was a Silverwing, and I commuted regularly on it- alone, but that was five years ago. This is by far the biggest (and nicest) bike I've ever owned.
 
Al st1100 said:
I never took my kids on the bike. One is 28 now, I just could not risk being shot by my wife if something would happen to them.:box1:
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My 14yr old eagerly wants to, but he's only been as far as the end of a private road/track.
The 19yr old has his own bike, and I mock him constantly that 1 cylinder on the ST is bigger than his engine.
The 21yr old wants to go on the back, but she has a job, she can buy her own riding gear first.
The wife wants to, but she also has a job, see previous sentence.
 
Rothkra said:
I've got a good 10 + years riding under my belt, but spread out over the last twenty. My last bike was a Silverwing, and I commuted regularly on it- alone, but that was five years ago. This is by far the biggest (and nicest) bike I've ever owned.
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Okay. Are you familiar with counter-steering? If you are, the additional weight of a passenger should not be obtrusively noticeable if the passenger becomes one with the bike. I agree with the previous posters who said the passenger should remain at the same angle as the bike, as an extension of the backrest.

If the passenger holds you snugly, then they should move with you, as if you suddenly weigh more instead of the bike weighing more. Either method requires some time and miles of riding together for both you and the passenger to become familiar with the motions that both you and the bike go through.
 
Some have alluded to this, but here goes anyway... When coming to a stop, head and eyes should be far forward, not looking at the spot where you want to stop. You can't see small changes in lean angle while looking down. Those small angles will be multiplied as you come to a stop, so the more upright the better. Biggest difference for me in stopping smoothly came when I learned to use the REAR brake only for the last 5-7 mph. Definitely use the front brake when you need that 80% of braking power, but the last few mph you don't need that power. Using the rear brake only keeps the bike straight and keeps the front end from diving, which multiplies any turn of the front wheel.
I told my wife 40 years ago to sit stright with the bike and let me do the work. That works for us, but I like the idea of telling the pillion to sit straight and look in the direction of lean. Since on one is able to keep from moving at least a little, this should keep the weight distributed in the right direction.
 
My wife had been given clear instructions that she shouldn't do anything without taking my permission (we have a code of how to ask for and give permission to move using hand signals, no response obviously means "wait!"). Unfortunately unlike my previous bike (a 250) the st1100 feels so stable and planted to her that she seems to occasionally take liberties with these instructions. I do remind her every time she does it though. Also, when it comes to movement, the higher the speed the more stable the bike, and I've explained that to her. She hates it, but she's also not allowed to use her phone when pillion (reason being you want her to be attentive to any situation around, etc) - basically, safety first, fun second.

On curves, she needs to follow my lead - do exactly what I do. So instead of her acting as luggage, we act like a single heavier rider. Seems to work well for me (especially since I don't move around on my seat at all on the ST - somehow doesn't feel like it's built for that!). On the 250, I would lean a little, and she would too - that works quite nicely as well, since it reduces overall leaning required.

When it comes to mounting/dismounting, it's tricky as we're both short (and I haven't lowered the seat or adjusted the suspension). I always ensure I have both feet down (not flat foot, but at least front half), with legs slightly apart and braced for unexpected forces, neutral, front brake held firm before letting her know it's safe to proceed. Being next to the kerb helps a lot, but if there's none nearby I do make sure the ground is firm, there's no gravel underfoot, and there is no significant sideways slope. She can't get her leg over without standing on the left footpeg, so it took repeated instruction for her to get that it doesn't matter how slowly she swings over, as long as weight remains to the left or center. She does tend to not get that right always, but bracing both legs helps in that situation.

Mounting the bike in heavy crosswinds is the trickiest, but with time you'll get how much you need to lean to counter the wind force, and remind your pillion that the key is to love as slowly as possible so you can counterbalance.

I have a strange problem though, the wife finds being on two wheels so comfortable that she occasionally dozes off! It's easy to tell, as she instinctively leans forward when sleepy, and when our helmets bump, I shake her knee till she's awake. I still had one funny overnight ride when she was extremely sleepy and we couldn't find a place to stop and rest (it was winter and she wasn't feeling her best), so I tied her up to myself and rode on :rofl1: I wouldn't do that again unless I was out of options though.
 
While looking for a pic of one of there . . .

90




. . . I came across this:

extreme-safety-the-bw.jpg
 
Is that a bike or a cage? I'm confused ... or is it for transporting prisoners, what did she do wrong, he looks like the guilty one to me ?
 
Buy a com unit, I think both of you will enjoy the ride more. Cherie likes to photograph while we ride so I am use to her moving around.
 
Gerhard said:
Buy a com unit, I think both of you will enjoy the ride more. Cherie likes to photograph while we ride so I am use to her moving around.
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This.

Best thing I bought for the wife was a com unit (we both have Cardo units). She was a pillion novice (only a couple of times in her past) and fidgeted like a fidgety thing no matter how much I told her not to.

Now, we can talk, I can tell her what's ahead, what I'm planning to do about it, what I need her to do to help me out, and we can both listen to music at the same time.

She can also control the music, since the com units work with Google Assistant on my phone. Maybe that's not such a great thing in hindsight...
 
ad.hom said:
This.

Best thing I bought for the wife was a com unit (we both have Cardo units). She was a pillion novice (only a couple of times in her past) and fidgeted like a fidgety thing no matter how much I told her not to.

Now, we can talk, I can tell her what's ahead, what I'm planning to do about it, what I need her to do to help me out, and we can both listen to music at the same time.

She can also control the music, since the com units work with Google Assistant on my phone. Maybe that's not such a great thing in hindsight...
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Com units have been on my wishlist for a while, but I've been wary of putting that amount of cash for one. What's the most basic 2 way com unit that also lets me pair with my phone over bluetooth (as I'm usually navigating using maps)
 
krist0ph3r said:
Com units have been on my wishlist for a while, but I've been wary of putting that amount of cash for one. What's the most basic 2 way com unit that also lets me pair with my phone over bluetooth (as I'm usually navigating using maps)
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Isn't there an app for that LOL, anyone tried a phone to phone bluetooth intercom?
 
krist0ph3r said:
Com units have been on my wishlist for a while, but I've been wary of putting that amount of cash for one. What's the most basic 2 way com unit that also lets me pair with my phone over bluetooth (as I'm usually navigating using maps)
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I've been partial to Sena units. To compare, run over to RevZilla, navigate to communications, and filter on "dual pack" - I think you can get a basic two pack unit for about $180. USD.
 
ad.hom said:
Now, we can talk, I can tell her what's ahead, what I'm planning to do about it, what I need her to do to help me out, and we can both listen to music at the same time.
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Sounds complicated.

I pointed my wife to a "two up" article many years ago. So, for the last 10 or so years, she's been "with one" with the bike - it's as if I'm riding one up. I'll see if I can find the article...
 
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