Covid 19.
- Thread starter Upt' North
- Start date
Managed to get out on the bike today for the first time since 13 March. We are now able to go out, but only within the Region of Murcia. Unfortunately our daughter, son in law and grandchildren live in Alicante province, which is only 10km away, but it is illegal to cross the border, so we are unable to see them at the moment.
This must also be a problem for some in the UK, unable to cross into Wales and Scotland from England. Very frustrating and debatable as to whether necessary.
This must also be a problem for some in the UK, unable to cross into Wales and Scotland from England. Very frustrating and debatable as to whether necessary.
I'm not in much of a position to intelligently debate baseless fear (as many contend) vs medical science (also contended). So I don't. I do think about what might happen if not for erring towards caution. Very frustrating no matter where we stand. For now - I'm still standing.Fawlty said:
Given the intrusion of politics into medical science, confounded with the fact there has not been enough time to statistically verify ANY supposition about CV19......no response will be intelligent, just various degrees of incorrect.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Here's an interesting 'Covid' example that happened to me recently. I went to a Sonic which is all take out for a breakfast burrito. They have some picnic tables in front in the shade. We could not sit at the tables though there was no one around, but we could sit on the curb where I could have reached out and touched the picnic tables - and my arms ain't six foot long. 
Whooshka
Fairly faST old guy
I understand both sides of the coin. Lifting restrictions VS Lockdown. In 2 weeks I'll be taking my annual week long ride with my buddies. Have I thrown caution to the wind? Hell NO! I'll wear a mask when I take off my helmet to fuel up, shop in a supermarket or get some take out. We'll be sitting 6 feet apart when we sit around the fire. And we'll be in individual tents.
If you feel it's too early to open up... stay home. Nobody is going to knock down your door and drag you out. If you want to venture out fine... just respect other's rights to be out and follow basic common sense safety precautions.
If you feel it's too early to open up... stay home. Nobody is going to knock down your door and drag you out. If you want to venture out fine... just respect other's rights to be out and follow basic common sense safety precautions.
Sure, in England.
The thing I love most about that picture though, is that it's no-where near the border!
I have no problem with people who have the right to be out and practicing safety precautions. The problems only arise when people adjust "common sense" to suit their whims. There is no standard for common sense. If it was common everybody would have it - not just everybody thinking they do. When in Rome I do as the Roman Constabulary and Guardia. If I don't want to - I don't go to Rome.
I've said in a number of situations for the last few months: we deal with serious bush fires by removing the source material, burning ahead etc. Why can't we do the same with Covid-19....
OP
OP
Strange, the Welsh normally love us EnglishSure, in England.
The thing I love most about that picture though, is that it's no-where near the border!
.Although, isn't Wales normally closed?
Upt'North.
drrod
Site Supporter
The virus is apolitical and does not recognize borders which is unfortunate. Otherwise every jurisdiction could successfully implement their own rules and regs and things would be great. It is also very unfortunate that the virus particle is so small. If it was big enough to see with the naked eye, I think people would be acting much differently.
Whooshka
Fairly faST old guy
Very far.
I'm in South Jersey nothing but straight, flat farm roads. I'll ride to a friend just outside Charlottesville Va.. From then on nothing but back roads and twisties. Then we'll meet my Carolina crew at a spot TBD. The weather dictates where we go. Usually anywhere between N. Georgia and W. Virginia.
As I wander around town I see more and more people who are not acting right. Dang, I love Texas!
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2006
- Messages
- 2,881
- Age
- 70
- Location
- Ilkley, W Yorkshire, UK
- Bike
- 2013 ST1300 A9
- 2024 Miles
- 000679
- STOC #
- 2570
Hopefully we will get out today at some point. Last night I discovered that my front brake light switch had failed. It worked last time I rode it. Ordered a new one which will be here later today, but I enjoyed the 9 piece puzzle of disassembling, cleaning, reassembling the faulty one. - which seems to be working now. But I dont think that I will trust it - something had made the spring and other small pieces fall apart, and I didn't find out what that was.
Weather forecast is not good for today, with some snow forecast over the Pennines. Whether or not that materialises remains to be seen, but higher roads may be icy and probably will not have been gritted. So riding may have to wait for another day. We shall see.
The cynic in me has this notion in my head that the powers that be in the various countries in the Kingdom ('United' now seems to be a redundant term) are using the opportunity to formally recognise their respective country's border. But realistically, it is a sensible precaution. It is people and how they interact that seem to be spreading this virus more than anything else - as seems to be indicated by the fact that the staying at home and social distancing rule is working.
With an infection rate of 4 (each person passing it on to 4 others) - which is around what they think the value might be if left to its own devices - 1 person can result in over a million cases within 10 exchanges. (1->4->16->64->256->1024->4096 etc) In 13 exchanges at that rate, that is the entire population of the Uk. Of course, it slows down as time passes as it starts hitting people more than once, But the growth is frightening. In the Uk, they recokon that the growth rate was initially more than 3, but many people had already stocked up with toilet roll and locked themselves away before the official lockdown, so it could have been much higher than that otherwise. I believe that It takes a few days to be able to pass it on, but longer to show the symptoms. So it will be a few cycles further along before they will know if the relaxation of some rules is making the situation worse. It makes it more important to stick to the rules that remain.
So I will be taking workshop disposable gloves and my cloth soaked in anti bacterial fluid, for use at fuel stations, and will keep my hands and gloves clean. I have yet to find out how easy it is to put on gloves after wiping my hands.
I guess that lifting the stay at home restriction is a very tentative step towards finding out whether or not it is this rule or the social distancing that is the key factor in slowing the infection rate. If people start relaxing on the other rules, it will take off again, much more rapidly, as there are now more cases than there were when lockdown first started.
On a motorcycle, it is easy to maintain social distancing, but i guess that the 2 metre rule has to be extended somewhat. The person in the car in front of you sneezes, how far back do you have to be to avoid riding through the 'fallout' ? Given that you can tell when someone in the car ahead has just lit a cigarette without actually being able to see the car ahead, it may be further than I care to think.
So I will go out, but avoid the normal routes, and avoid the routes that others will take when they think that they are avoiding the normal routes. Short rides. Just to get out again, and get rid of the withdrawal symptom 'shakes'. I have a more crucial limiting factor. My tyre life is usually a little more than 5,000 miles. I reckon I have half of that left on the current set. And no one around here is fitting tyres at the moment !
Weather forecast is not good for today, with some snow forecast over the Pennines. Whether or not that materialises remains to be seen, but higher roads may be icy and probably will not have been gritted. So riding may have to wait for another day. We shall see.
The cynic in me has this notion in my head that the powers that be in the various countries in the Kingdom ('United' now seems to be a redundant term) are using the opportunity to formally recognise their respective country's border. But realistically, it is a sensible precaution. It is people and how they interact that seem to be spreading this virus more than anything else - as seems to be indicated by the fact that the staying at home and social distancing rule is working.
With an infection rate of 4 (each person passing it on to 4 others) - which is around what they think the value might be if left to its own devices - 1 person can result in over a million cases within 10 exchanges. (1->4->16->64->256->1024->4096 etc) In 13 exchanges at that rate, that is the entire population of the Uk. Of course, it slows down as time passes as it starts hitting people more than once, But the growth is frightening. In the Uk, they recokon that the growth rate was initially more than 3, but many people had already stocked up with toilet roll and locked themselves away before the official lockdown, so it could have been much higher than that otherwise. I believe that It takes a few days to be able to pass it on, but longer to show the symptoms. So it will be a few cycles further along before they will know if the relaxation of some rules is making the situation worse. It makes it more important to stick to the rules that remain.
So I will be taking workshop disposable gloves and my cloth soaked in anti bacterial fluid, for use at fuel stations, and will keep my hands and gloves clean. I have yet to find out how easy it is to put on gloves after wiping my hands.
I guess that lifting the stay at home restriction is a very tentative step towards finding out whether or not it is this rule or the social distancing that is the key factor in slowing the infection rate. If people start relaxing on the other rules, it will take off again, much more rapidly, as there are now more cases than there were when lockdown first started.
On a motorcycle, it is easy to maintain social distancing, but i guess that the 2 metre rule has to be extended somewhat. The person in the car in front of you sneezes, how far back do you have to be to avoid riding through the 'fallout' ? Given that you can tell when someone in the car ahead has just lit a cigarette without actually being able to see the car ahead, it may be further than I care to think.
So I will go out, but avoid the normal routes, and avoid the routes that others will take when they think that they are avoiding the normal routes. Short rides. Just to get out again, and get rid of the withdrawal symptom 'shakes'. I have a more crucial limiting factor. My tyre life is usually a little more than 5,000 miles. I reckon I have half of that left on the current set. And no one around here is fitting tyres at the moment !
Last edited:
OP
OP
John, leave the forecourt gloves on, or a fresh pair. They also work a treat when your hands are wet on a ride after fueling. No more forecourt glove dance.
Upt'North.
Another factor that I like to consider - should I be involved in any type of accident that requires me to go to hospital, what are my chances of collecting an unwanted gift of Covid-19 while there? One person in my family had a stroke back in November... a month or so ago had a fall & was collected in an ambulance. He didn't come out, and his brother was the only person allowed at the funeral.
This thinking informs my use of the car, let alone the use of the bike (where, I'm sure we can all agree, we're at more risk if an incident occurs).
The final part of my reasoning, is that with less traffic on the road, lots of people are becoming complacent behind the wheel. As a result, they pay less attention/take more risks than would normally be the case.
Normally wet - which to any weekend warrior means it's just as good as closed. Shame that the weather doesn't stop the caravans though.
Anyone with half a brain can make it from England into Wales without much thought, just avoid the main trunk roads. Pop out anywhere that there's an ANPR camera though, and the authorities know you're from out of the area, and where you currently are. A'int rocket science.
Then, there's the couple that left from Wales to pick up a camervan recently... and broke down on their way home.
I've had so many different feelings on this over the past couple months. And as I tell my family, I listen and read on all the "news" to be informed, but not to panic. My Christian faith gives me the solid foundation to stand on, not what politicians and news talking heads say. 
In the beginning, it appeared locking things down would solve it all. So most of us did. Then I read about how the number of infections was rising. Oh my gosh!!! But...wasn't that because more testing kits were available and being used? And then we heard of how the tests were inaccurate; there were false positives and false negatives. Deaths are a more accurate assessment of risk than testing. You are breathing, or you're not. Simple. And I'm not trying to trivialize that outcome, either.
Then there's the case of Sweden. Life continued pretty much as normal. They just locked down the highly vulnerable people and practiced social distancing. Their death rate is nowhere near what other countries have reached. Hmm... That makes me wonder and think.
And then Gov. Cuomo said that a majority of the new cases in NY were from people who were locked down. Huh? It turns out that perhaps having families huddled together in their homes in lockdown, brought in younger people who had had the virus but showed no symptoms. So instead of them being out and about like in Sweden and living in their own homes, they went in to the homes of the vulnerable.
Hospitals have not been inundated. It appears we have indeed "flattened the curve"...but it seems the goal has shifted more to no deaths at all, or to a miraculous vaccine. If it is anything like the normal flu vaccine...that is no guarantee. And the new goal seems to be one that is probably unobtainable.
And then there's the politicians who are using the pandemic for their own purposes. The latest House Democrats coronavirus bill has been described as a liberal wish list. Without getting into whether the bill has "good" things in it or not...the point is that we've moved from trying to help the people and companies that are hurting with financial support to political agendas.
So I really don't know what to believe. I'm keeping my eyes open and trying to use "common sense"...and be considerate of others who don't feel the same as I do. And I'll practice what I've done for all these years of going into prisons, jails and international mission trips where people use their left hand for toilet paper. That is to not touch my face. And when I get to a "safe" place, to sanitize my hands.
Chris
In the beginning, it appeared locking things down would solve it all. So most of us did. Then I read about how the number of infections was rising. Oh my gosh!!! But...wasn't that because more testing kits were available and being used? And then we heard of how the tests were inaccurate; there were false positives and false negatives. Deaths are a more accurate assessment of risk than testing. You are breathing, or you're not. Simple. And I'm not trying to trivialize that outcome, either.
Then there's the case of Sweden. Life continued pretty much as normal. They just locked down the highly vulnerable people and practiced social distancing. Their death rate is nowhere near what other countries have reached. Hmm... That makes me wonder and think.
And then Gov. Cuomo said that a majority of the new cases in NY were from people who were locked down. Huh? It turns out that perhaps having families huddled together in their homes in lockdown, brought in younger people who had had the virus but showed no symptoms. So instead of them being out and about like in Sweden and living in their own homes, they went in to the homes of the vulnerable.
Hospitals have not been inundated. It appears we have indeed "flattened the curve"...but it seems the goal has shifted more to no deaths at all, or to a miraculous vaccine. If it is anything like the normal flu vaccine...that is no guarantee. And the new goal seems to be one that is probably unobtainable.
And then there's the politicians who are using the pandemic for their own purposes. The latest House Democrats coronavirus bill has been described as a liberal wish list. Without getting into whether the bill has "good" things in it or not...the point is that we've moved from trying to help the people and companies that are hurting with financial support to political agendas.
So I really don't know what to believe. I'm keeping my eyes open and trying to use "common sense"...and be considerate of others who don't feel the same as I do. And I'll practice what I've done for all these years of going into prisons, jails and international mission trips where people use their left hand for toilet paper. That is to not touch my face. And when I get to a "safe" place, to sanitize my hands.
Chris
Whooshka
Fairly faST old guy
I've had so many different feelings on this over the past couple months. And as I tell my family, I listen and read on all the "news" to be informed, but not to panic. My Christian faith gives me the solid foundation to stand on, not what politicians and news talking heads say.
In the beginning, it appeared locking things down would solve it all. So most of us did. Then I read about how the number of infections was rising. Oh my gosh!!! But...wasn't that because more testing kits were available and being used? And then we heard of how the tests were inaccurate; there were false positives and false negatives. Deaths are a more accurate assessment of risk than testing. You are breathing, or you're not. Simple. And I'm not trying to trivialize that outcome, either.
Then there's the case of Sweden. Life continued pretty much as normal. They just locked down the highly vulnerable people and practiced social distancing. Their death rate is nowhere near what other countries have reached. Hmm... That makes me wonder and think.
And then Gov. Cuomo said that a majority of the new cases in NY were from people who were locked down. Huh? It turns out that perhaps having families huddled together in their homes in lockdown, brought in younger people who had had the virus but showed no symptoms. So instead of them being out and about like in Sweden and living in their own homes, they went in to the homes of the vulnerable.
Hospitals have not been inundated. It appears we have indeed "flattened the curve"...but it seems the goal has shifted more to no deaths at all, or to a miraculous vaccine. If it is anything like the normal flu vaccine...that is no guarantee. And the new goal seems to be one that is probably unobtainable.
And then there's the politicians who are using the pandemic for their own purposes. The latest House Democrats coronavirus bill has been described as a liberal wish list. Without getting into whether the bill has "good" things in it or not...the point is that we've moved from trying to help the people and companies that are hurting with financial support to political agendas.
So I really don't know what to believe. I'm keeping my eyes open and trying to use "common sense"...and be considerate of others who don't feel the same as I do. And I'll practice what I've done for all these years of going into prisons, jails and international mission trips where people use their left hand for toilet paper. That is to not touch my face. And when I get to a "safe" place, to sanitize my hands.
Chris
Same here. I also had mixed emotions about what we were being fed. Then I opened my eyes as things were becoming more clear as to this virus's origins. I started to ignore the media as we have learned fake news or not, they can't be trusted to report the facts. The conspiracy theories of political motivation are becoming more believable.
My wife and I had a brief debate yesterday where she said the death toll was rising. I said of course it is, it's cumulative. Tomorrow will be more than today too, it can't go down! And we have more reported cases. Of course we do as more people are being tested. But the deaths per infections is definately dropping.