Could? Don't you mean "have"? LOL!!Hmm, I could probably buy 10 nice ST1100s for that price ...
Could? Don't you mean "have"? LOL!!Hmm, I could probably buy 10 nice ST1100s for that price ...
Under normal circumstances, I might agree with you. But in this case, having used ACC for 500 miles/day for a year and a half, I have a pretty strong reservation about its use on motorcycles.I don't see a downside to ACC. Any form of technology can be misused, but unless it ENCOURAGES misuse, there's no reason to avoid it.
It appears to me from reading a couple of press releases that the BMW system differs from current ACC systems in at least two important ways. One, it incorporates yaw and lean information made available from the Bosch 3 axis Lean-ABS brain and takes into account the extremely variable attitudes motorcycles take in normal operation (lean, pitch, yaw) and secondly it doesn't incorporate emergency braking triggered by stationary objects and/or stopped vehicles. BMW says it will require much more operator responsibility than car or truck systems in current use and is more designed as a distance keeping control that actively keeps track of moving vehicles within a certain distance in front of the motorcycle.Under normal circumstances, I might agree with you. But in this case, having used ACC for 500 miles/day for a year and a half, I have a pretty strong reservation about its use on motorcycles.
The problem isn't how it behaves when everything is working well, it's how it behaves when everything goes bad.
For example, if you're in a car and the ACC suddenly goes maximum braking to avoid a collision (and you're not expecting it), you pretty much stay in your seat and come to a quick stop. A car is inherently stable and will stay upright with no intervention from you.
Now, imagine maximum braking when you're not prepared for it on a motorcycle and aren't physically tied to the vehicle. If you believe that all motorcyclists are riding at full alertness at all times, and will always be at maximum readiness for a threshold braking event, then you're more of an optimist of human nature than I am. What I envision is people being thrown from their bikes because they weren't as alert as they should be, or in many cases have no clue what maximum braking is like on their motorcycle. Or better yet, having an auto-braking event occur due to a false positive. I've had it happen on many occasions, and I'm telling you from firsthand experience that it will scare the living crap out of you in a "normal" vehicle.
No doubt someone will come long shortly and say that I'm an alarmist, that I don't know what I'm talking about , that I'm "not being nice", or whatever. I'm not speaking in a vacuum here; I have over 150,000 miles of experience with the systems on the market in every weather condition around, and I know how they behave. I understand the dynamics of stable vs. unstable vehicles, and I understand the cognitive ability of the average American motorist, and it is my well-considered belief that this technology is fine (and even possibly necessary) in multi-track vehicles, but is not a good idea for the average motorist on single-track vehicles for a number of reasons.
Good point, but I wouldn't be an early adopter so I probably wouldn't need to worry. On the other hand, someone (actually many) needs to be an early adopter to prove the reliability of the system.Under normal circumstances, I might agree with you. But in this case, having used ACC for 500 miles/day for a year and a half, I have a pretty strong reservation about its use on motorcycles.
The problem isn't how it behaves when everything is working well, it's how it behaves when everything goes bad.
Maximum braking? Under cruise control circumstances? Sounds to me like a situation that might catch quite a few guys by surprise if they were riding w/o CC. The BMW system, according to the article, hands off control if the gentle braking will not fit the circumstances.Under normal circumstances, I might agree with you. But in this case, having used ACC for 500 miles/day for a year and a half, I have a pretty strong reservation about its use on motorcycles.
The problem isn't how it behaves when everything is working well, it's how it behaves when everything goes bad.
For example, if you're in a car and the ACC suddenly goes maximum braking to avoid a collision (and you're not expecting it), you pretty much stay in your seat and come to a quick stop. A car is inherently stable and will stay upright with no intervention from you.
Now, imagine maximum braking when you're not prepared for it on a motorcycle and aren't physically tied to the vehicle. If you believe that all motorcyclists are riding at full alertness at all times, and will always be at maximum readiness for a threshold braking event, then you're more of an optimist of human nature than I am. What I envision is people being thrown from their bikes because they weren't as alert as they should be, or in many cases have no clue what maximum braking is like on their motorcycle. Or better yet, having an auto-braking event occur due to a false positive. I've had it happen on many occasions, and I'm telling you from firsthand experience that it will scare the living crap out of you in a "normal" vehicle.
No doubt someone will come long shortly and say that I'm an alarmist, that I don't know what I'm talking about , that I'm "not being nice", or whatever. I'm not speaking in a vacuum here; I have over 150,000 miles of experience with the systems on the market in every weather condition around, and I know how they behave. I understand the dynamics of stable vs. unstable vehicles, and I understand the cognitive ability of the average American motorist, and it is my well-considered belief that this technology is fine (and even possibly necessary) in multi-track vehicles, but is not a good idea for the average motorist on single-track vehicles for a number of reasons.
Oh yeah. Happened to me at least a couple dozen times.Maximum braking? Under cruise control circumstances?
Things to consider here... ACC for motorcycles should work differently than it does for cars. I don't know if that's going to be the case, but it should be and...Oh yeah. Happened to me at least a couple dozen times.
The scenario would center around the fact that the radar is far better than you are (the "royal you", not you specifically) at determining rapid deceleration of the vehicle in front of you, long before your brain registers that it's slowing down.
Additionally, it's better at sensing delta than people are, and that's what triggers the avoidance braking (at least in the Bosch systems that I used).
So imagine you're cruising at 70 with a 5-second gap to the vehicle in front of you, but that guy is sniffing the rump of the vehicle in front of him. Everything is fine, until the guy being tailgated gets tired of it and lightly brake checks the guy behind him (the one in front of you). The trailing guy panics and stabs the brake hard. Your radar is still holding your distance like before, but it suddenly sees a huge delta shift in that vehicle's velocity. In that scenario, the huge and sudden delta would trigger a hard brake every time (and by "hard" I mean 0.8G or more).
This sort of behavior is tolerable when the worst that happens is that you get put hard into your seat belt. But imagine suddenly being put into hard breaking on a motorcycle when you're not prepared for it. Imagine only having hold of a single handlebar because you're taking a drink, or turning the volume down on your headset, or adjusting your radio. Imagine your unbraced, unprepared torso lurching forward while you're applying uneven pressure against the bars.
I'm not being an alarmist, and I'm not talking about hypothetical situations. I'm speaking of repeated experiences, with telematics data and post-incident investigation (something that I think few people here can claim). I think ACC is a useful tool for cars and trucks that has downsides that are more correctly called "nuisance" than "danger". On a motorcycle, though, the dynamics are substantially different, and I believe that the likelihood of an unintended "dangerous" consequence is much higher.
But what happens when the system malfunctions? And they certainly will, nothing is perfect. We are raising generations of drivers that won't know how to take control in the case of malfunctions because they never had to do it themselves.The problem Ray is the drivers are dumbing down regardless if they have ACC or not. The ones with it at least get some warning of an impending collision as the car brakes on its own. The ones without it simply pile, mid text or social media update, into the car ahead of them.
Is a standard transmission an anti theft device......yes!But what happens when the system malfunctions? And they certainly will, nothing is perfect. We are raising generations of drivers that won't know how to take control in the case of malfunctions because they never had to do it themselves.
Everyday single and multiple pileups occur due to inattentive drivers. While I agree there will be malfunctions of any electronics I still think on the whole the number of participants in this type of crash will net lower as more vehicles are equipped with following distance monitoring.But what happens when the system malfunctions? And they certainly will, nothing is perfect. We are raising generations of drivers that won't know how to take control in the case of malfunctions because they never had to do it themselves.
I found when I used ACC in our Toyota Sienna my mind only had to worry about keeping the vehicle in between the lines. This made me sleepy for some reason. How is this drivers aid a safety feature if it make me sleepy? I find the same thing happening when I follow a tractor trailer or box truck too long. No visual stimuli and I get sleepy. Weird.It's just more dumbing down of the driver. What happens when these systems malfunction and the driver is relying on it to do it's job? Car or motorcycle.
Do you not have an onboard entertainment system? Pop in a DVD to keep you from becoming bored and sleepyI found when I used ACC in our Toyota Sienna my mind only had to worry about keeping the vehicle in between the lines. This made me sleepy for some reason. How is this drivers aid a safety feature if it make me sleepy? I find the same thing happening when I follow a tractor trailer or box truck too long. No visual stimuli and I get sleepy. Weird.
It will be if engineers take an automotive system and graft it directly into that of a motorcycle. But it's possible that BMW and other manufactures may consider there are two fewer wheels in the vehicle they're working on and address safety concerns. I find it impossible to consider sudden stops destabilizing a bike on ACC didn't occur to designers.On a motorcycle, though, the dynamics are substantially different, and I believe that the likelihood of an unintended "dangerous" consequence is much higher.