Any particular concerns? I pulled mine apart last year to replace the pistons, seems fine since, but...
How much rear brake drag is normal?
- Thread starter Tommo
- Start date
The number one concern is I’ve seen several folks strip and cross threaded their very expensive calipers doing this.
Trying to take short cuts like removing the inboard side to replace pads instead of pulling the axle out, often damages the roof clip without the owner knowing about it.
Or pulling the guide dowel off the caliper because they see a nut on it.
Then they over tighten the steel bolt and pull threads out of the soft aluminum housing, or put it in wrong etc.
Trying to take short cuts like removing the inboard side to replace pads instead of pulling the axle out, often damages the roof clip without the owner knowing about it.
Or pulling the guide dowel off the caliper because they see a nut on it.
Then they over tighten the steel bolt and pull threads out of the soft aluminum housing, or put it in wrong etc.
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Agree. The Honda dealer recommended and sold me EBC brake pads a few years ago. Nothing but brake drag. Larry (Igofar) recommended putting OEM pads in, and the problem went away.
That bolt should never be removed.Ahh, gotcha. Yes, that bolt should always be installed by hand, without tools, with the caliper off the bike
Exactly which part are you talking about?
The stopper plug does not need to be replaced, and I was referring to the caliper sliding dowel that is attached to the caliper.
It has a 12mm nut on it to attach it to the caliper, and folks see that and think they should remove it etc.
No reason to ever remove this part.
The stopper plug does not need to be replaced, and I was referring to the caliper sliding dowel that is attached to the caliper.
It has a 12mm nut on it to attach it to the caliper, and folks see that and think they should remove it etc.
No reason to ever remove this part.
The sliding dowel. The overhaul 'kit' I bought had one, so as I had the caliper apart to change the pistons and seals etc, gave the casting an ultrasound clean, seemed daft not to use it. It seems it had been used 'dry' at some point, and/or with a torn boot, so had a little surface rust, and with a replacement in my hand I couldn't really be bothered trying to clean it up.
Edit: I do agree though, it would be better with a torx head or something weird to less appeal to idle wrenches, but probably not worth the cost to Honda.
Edit: I do agree though, it would be better with a torx head or something weird to less appeal to idle wrenches, but probably not worth the cost to Honda.
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Are you all taking about replacing the SMC on the front left caliper? or is this the SMC on the right rear side of the bike in the rear master cylinder parts fiche?
If my rear brakes are dragging after a brake fluid flush and changing the pads ( used EBC brake pads) which SMC should I replace?
If my rear brakes are dragging after a brake fluid flush and changing the pads ( used EBC brake pads) which SMC should I replace?
As far as I am aware there is only one Secondary Master Cylinder on the ST1300 and that is on the front left caliper. Experts will be along shortly and will sort you out.
There are several things you will need to inspect to get the correct answer.
The EBC brake pads would be the first thing suspect, since they have a long history of poor fitment issues on these bikes, and they have omitted the heat shield on the rear pads etc.
Things like assembly sequence, proper torque, lubrication, and correct bleed procedure affect this issue also.
What year is your bike, and how many miles?
Service history?
After having to replace hundreds of failed SMC’s, I would probably guess your SMC is probably toast as well.
Standing by the white courtesy phone if needed
The EBC brake pads would be the first thing suspect, since they have a long history of poor fitment issues on these bikes, and they have omitted the heat shield on the rear pads etc.
Things like assembly sequence, proper torque, lubrication, and correct bleed procedure affect this issue also.
What year is your bike, and how many miles?
Service history?
After having to replace hundreds of failed SMC’s, I would probably guess your SMC is probably toast as well.
Standing by the white courtesy phone if needed
YUP
There are several things you will need to inspect to get the correct answer.
The EBC brake pads would be the first thing suspect, since they have a long history of poor fitment issues on these bikes, and they have omitted the heat shield on the rear pads etc.
Things like assembly sequence, proper torque, lubrication, and correct bleed procedure affect this issue also.
What year is your bike, and how many miles?
Service history?
After having to replace hundreds of failed SMC’s, I would probably guess your SMC is probably toast as well.
Standing by the white courtesy phone if needed
I have an 04 ST1300 with 36,750 miles I have had all the maintenance done on the bike. This last time I had the brake pads replaced and brake bleed done the rear caliper outer pistons were not releasing and caused a bad drag and the caliper to heat up quickly. The fronts have no issue.
Your SMC (left front brake caliper) is failing, and/or completely frozen.
This is the warning sign that your bike may lock up the rear wheel without warning and toss you off.
You should probably not ride or operate your bike without first inspecting and testing the SMC for correct/safe function etc.
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Nothing to add to what has been said already - except some points of information.
1. The master cylinder on the right hand side behind the large silver alloy footpeg bracket is the master cylinder for the brake pedal. It is not the SMC.
2. The slide pin that is shown cross threaded in Larry's post #22 - the one that should never be undone unless it is being replaced. This is the main caliper slide pin mounted on the caliper itself. The early service manuals (including the illegally copied version that can be found online, and my 2004 version) have diagrams that confuse this part with a different part. It is labelled as having a torque setting of 69Nm. This is wrong. That torque will strip the threads out of the caliper. The actual torque value is 27Nm ***
(The part that it is confused with is the caliper bracket stopper bolt - which is not shown in the caliper bracket exploded diagrams. You will find that on the swing arm fiche, and that does have a torque of 69Nm. You can't confuse the two except in a diagram - the stopper bolt is a seriously big lump of metal! )
3. The silver retainer clip that fits onto the caliper bracket to locate the tab end of the brake pads:
Note that the rear retainer clip has a ridge, the front retainer clip does not. Get them the wrong way round with OEM pads, your front brakes will not release properly and your rear brake will drag as a result. Also, this clip should be glued in place.
Honda recommend a Threebond 1521 adhesive to fix this retainer in place. It is a flexible adhesive which I believe is required - not to hold it in place, as it can't go anywhere - but to prevent vibration wear of the recess in which it seats in the caliper bracket. A worn recess results in pads sitting incorrectly.
I found a UHU Extreme Repair adhesive which has similar properties to the three bond, and is more readily available in the UK.
The requirement for glue is mentioned only in one place that I have found - Section 1 general information - towards the end of the table that shows lubrication and seal points.
****
Torque values can be found in a number of places in the workshop manual.
To find the correct name of a part, use online parts fiches to help identify the image, and look for the number in the table. What is listed is the name that Honda uses.
First time you lookup a torque setting, make sure that all 4 places quote the same value. sometimes the process of labelling diagrams and adding detail to the text introduces errors.
1. The master cylinder on the right hand side behind the large silver alloy footpeg bracket is the master cylinder for the brake pedal. It is not the SMC.
2. The slide pin that is shown cross threaded in Larry's post #22 - the one that should never be undone unless it is being replaced. This is the main caliper slide pin mounted on the caliper itself. The early service manuals (including the illegally copied version that can be found online, and my 2004 version) have diagrams that confuse this part with a different part. It is labelled as having a torque setting of 69Nm. This is wrong. That torque will strip the threads out of the caliper. The actual torque value is 27Nm ***
(The part that it is confused with is the caliper bracket stopper bolt - which is not shown in the caliper bracket exploded diagrams. You will find that on the swing arm fiche, and that does have a torque of 69Nm. You can't confuse the two except in a diagram - the stopper bolt is a seriously big lump of metal! )
3. The silver retainer clip that fits onto the caliper bracket to locate the tab end of the brake pads:
Note that the rear retainer clip has a ridge, the front retainer clip does not. Get them the wrong way round with OEM pads, your front brakes will not release properly and your rear brake will drag as a result. Also, this clip should be glued in place.
Honda recommend a Threebond 1521 adhesive to fix this retainer in place. It is a flexible adhesive which I believe is required - not to hold it in place, as it can't go anywhere - but to prevent vibration wear of the recess in which it seats in the caliper bracket. A worn recess results in pads sitting incorrectly.
I found a UHU Extreme Repair adhesive which has similar properties to the three bond, and is more readily available in the UK.
The requirement for glue is mentioned only in one place that I have found - Section 1 general information - towards the end of the table that shows lubrication and seal points.
****
Torque values can be found in a number of places in the workshop manual.
- On the diagram
- In the text of the manual
- In the list at the start of each chapter
- In the torque settings at the front of the manual, section 1
To find the correct name of a part, use online parts fiches to help identify the image, and look for the number in the table. What is listed is the name that Honda uses.
First time you lookup a torque setting, make sure that all 4 places quote the same value. sometimes the process of labelling diagrams and adding detail to the text introduces errors.
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I am definitely not riding it! Thanks! The correct parts have been ordered thanks to this forum.Your SMC (left front brake caliper) is failing, and/or completely frozen.
This is the warning sign that your bike may lock up the rear wheel without warning and toss you off.
You should probably not ride or operate your bike without first inspecting and testing the SMC for correct/safe function etc.
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It's machined that shape
Check the inside surface for 'rifling' marks - that seems to be an indicator of damage.
Its very hard to make out with the naked eye, but with the light just right ....
