When doing timing belt

Since the 91 water pump is no longer available, is there any problem using the later one? The o-ring is listed separately but I've read that it comes with the pump?

When folks talk about replacing the pulleys, they are actually referring to the following, not the pulleys, correct? :

017 TENSIONER 14510-MT3-003 001 $102.64 $78.47
018 SPRING, TENSIONER 14513-MT3-000 001 $8.00 $6.12
025 IDLER, TIMING BELT 14560-MT3-003 001 $77.44 $59.20
To check these, is it only a matter of checking for ANY sloppiness?

I've read that the differences in the pumps are a moot point, something about an unused port. So get a new one and you are good. Please set me straight someone if I am giving bad advice.
Any replace able part is a good choice, but yes if the pulley has no slop it is still good.
Have you seen that you can get a belt from ebay that is identical to the Honda part (prolly the Honda vender, Gates) for less money?

Mark, I got the Gates belt a while ago from Amazon. It's just been waiting for my courage to get in there.

DeanR said:

Since the 91 water pump is no longer available, is there any problem using the later one? The o-ring is listed separately but I've read that it comes with the pump?

When folks talk about replacing the pulleys, they are actually referring to the following, not the pulleys, correct? :

017 TENSIONER 14510-MT3-003 001 $102.64 $78.47
018 SPRING, TENSIONER 14513-MT3-000 001 $8.00 $6.12
025 IDLER, TIMING BELT 14560-MT3-003 001 $77.44 $59.20
To check these, is it only a matter of checking for ANY sloppiness?

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Yes, those are the ones. In my case the old ones were in perfect shape, but since I went in there once in 16 years to change the belt I figured I'd change everything while I was in there and forget about it. Others here have said the same thing, because its a fair amount of work to do the job, so you'd prefer to not have to do the job twice if a tensioner bearing goes bad later. Also, I ordered all the parts in advance, assuming the tensioners would be ready for replacement, so I put them in anyway because I had them. I had to be careful keeping them separated because the old ones looked just like the new ones. If you're planning on keeping the bike for any significant time you should probably replace them just for peace of mind, but if they inspect out OK its probably not absolutely necessary if you're trying to keep the costs down.

Dean, your '91 has the oil cooler and needs the water pump with the nipple for that. The pump for the '92-'94 model years works fine on the '91s, trust me. The other nipple/port for the crankcase breather chamber isn't used on the '91s but doesn't interfere when installed. I'm not at my computer at the moment but can get the part number later. Have you seen the timing belt article in the AOW? HTH

Edit: many of us opted for waiting until the 180K timing belt R&R to do the pulleys. FWIW

John

DeanR said:

Mark, I got the Gates belt a while ago from Amazon. It's just been waiting for my courage to get in there.

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I did my first timing belt about two weeks ago, all pretty straight forward one the plastic and radiator is off, I found I didn't have to remove the clutch cover just used a bit of perseverance and persuasion to get the plastic belt cover over the bottom pulley nut, the hardest thing was trying to hold the tensioned adjuster and tighten the bolt to keep it out of the way, luckily my wife was there to let a hand (bless her) putting the cover back on was easier than taking it off .... best of luck it's just the thought of it that's off putting.

John OoSTerhuis said:

Dean, your '91 has the oil cooler and needs the water pump with the nipple for that. The pump for the '92-'94 model years works fine on the '91s, trust me. The other nipple/port for the crankcase breather chamber isn't used on the '91s but doesn't interfere when installed. I'm not at my computer at the moment but can get the part number later. Have you seen the timing belt article in the AOW? HTH

Edit: many of us opted for waiting until the 180K timing belt R&R to do the pulleys. FWIW

John

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So just bolt the new pump on with no alterations etc. necessary?
and the oil cooler will no longer be of use, kinda like one's appendix?
Yep, I've read all the AOW stuff. Gotta do it again though.
So John, you guys did the pump at 90k? just not the idler and tensioner?

99 WATER PUMP 19200-MAJ-G20 001 $328.73 $249.50
94 WATER PUMP 19200-MY3-010 001 $411.69 $312.47
are they the same? 99 is listed as significantly cheaper

DeanR said:

...the oil cooler will no longer be of use, kinda like one's appendix?

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Nah! Don't worry, the oil cooler was present till '95, thus will the w/pump of the '92~'94 models do absolutely fine on your '91 and keep feeding the oil cooler, which is essential with the oil-cooled 26A alternator of those engines.

DeanR said:

So just bolt the new pump on with no alterations etc. necessary?
and the oil cooler will no longer be of use, kinda like one's appendix?
Yep, I've read all the AOW stuff. Gotta do it again though.
So John, you guys did the pump at 90k? just not the idler and tensioner?

99 WATER PUMP 19200-MAJ-G20 001 $328.73 $249.50
94 WATER PUMP 19200-MY3-010 001 $411.69 $312.47
are they the same? 99 is listed as significantly cheaper

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the '91-'94 all had the oil cooler fitting, so if you use the '92-94 pump you'll have the correct version of the pump with the same fittings as you have now. I don't think anybody is saying to use the '95-later pump.

Dean, are you replacing your water pump... has it failed?

Your oil cooler question has been answered. The water pump for the '99 cannot be used on your '91.

I was referring to the timing belt R&R replacement schedule, every 90K. At 180K I'll do the belt again and also do the pulleys then. I have a NOS '91 water pump (w/o the crankcase breather nipple) on my shelf but probably won't install it until the original fails.
John

I've replaced 4 belts, one water pump, 2 idler pulleys, and one tensioner pulley over a total of 3 bikes now with +500,000 miles between them. Other than busted knuckles, no real problems. Just do it.

I always defer to John's advice on any mechanicals, his knowledge is legend.

So the timing belt is due to be replaced at 90.000 miles, my bike is 13 years old next month( well since it was first registered anyway)
She has done 42,000 miles so far,averge of 3,230 miles per year.

So she won't be due a timing belt for another 48,000 miles, I'm probably averaging 4,000 miles per year on the ST,so that will take 12 years to do the 48,000 miles at that rate.

So she will be 25 years old in 2026,if both of us last that long she'll be getting a new timing belt then,gotta love the Honda.

broc11 said:

So the timing belt is due to be replaced at 90.000 miles, my bike is 13 years old next month( well since it was first registered anyway)
She has done 42,000 miles so far,averge of 3,230 miles per year.

So she won't be due a timing belt for another 48,000 miles, I'm probably averaging 4,000 miles per year on the ST,so that will take 12 years to do the 48,000 miles at that rate.

So she will be 25 years old in 2026,if both of us last that long she'll be getting a new timing belt then,gotta love the Honda.

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There are varying opinions about the belts. It's my opinion that rubber degrades over time, so even if you don't have a lot of miles, if it were my bike, I would do a belt during some convenient service. Don't worry about it until then, but the next time you plan to have the plastic off, it wouldn't be a bad idea. The rest of the mechanicals should be fine, but still give the pulleys and water pump a spin. If any feel loose or rough, replace them.

I've changed a couple hundred timing belts. I've seen broken ones at 30k miles in 3 year old cars; and I've seen them plugging along at 200k miles. Its a gamble...how lucky do you feel?

John OoSTerhuis said:

Dean, are you replacing your water pump... has it failed?

Your oil cooler question has been answered. The water pump for the '99 cannot be used on your '91.

I was referring to the timing belt R&R replacement schedule, every 90K. At 180K I'll do the belt again and also do the water pump pulleys then. I have a NOS '91 water pump (w/o the crankcase breather nipple) on my shelf but probably won't install it until the original fails.
John

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No pump problem John. Doing timing belt shortly (96k). Sounds like you and George say leave the pump alone. It sure would save a hunk of change if I save it till another day.
Pulled carbs for the first time today. I needed a big prybar instead of a broomstick which started to break. Other than that no problem. I left the fuel tank in because it is full! Hoses tomorrow.

Anyone ever wonder WHY Honda eliminated the oil cooler on later models ?? My theory concerning why Honda eliminated the oil cooler on the later models is that it wasn't allowing the oil to reach an adequate operating temperature, under certain conditions.

According to a book I read by Smokey Yunick, the optimum operating temperature for mineral oil is about 230 degees F.

If I had an early model ST1100 with the oil cooler, I would eliminate or bypass the oil cooler.

Jim Van said:

Anyone ever wonder WHY Honda eliminated the oil cooler on later models ?? My theory concerning why Honda eliminated the oil cooler on the later models is that it wasn't allowing the oil to reach an adequate operating temperature, under certain conditions.

According to a book I read by Smokey Yunick, the optimum operating temperature for mineral oil is about 230 degees F.

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Just one more good reason to use a full synthetic oil then.

Jim Van said:

Anyone ever wonder WHY Honda eliminated the oil cooler on later models ?? My theory concerning why Honda eliminated the oil cooler on the later models is that it wasn't allowing the oil to reach an adequate operating temperature, under certain conditions. If I had an early model ST1100 with the oil cooler, I would eliminate or bypass the oil cooler.

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Honda eliminated the oil cooler in '96 and the alternator was also upgraded from the oil-bathed 28 amp to the air-cooled 40 amp unit. I doubt that is a coincidence.
I upgraded my '95 to a 40 amp alt a few yrs ago but last summer when I did the 90K mile T-belt, water-pump, hose work, I also eliminated the oil cooler ('96+ metal coolant pipe + H2O pump req'd). If the cooler wasn't needed on the '96+ models, then I certainly didn't need it either (and I was happy to eliminate two coolant hoses).
Regards,
Mr. BR

Jim Van said:

Anyone ever wonder WHY Honda eliminated the oil cooler on later models ?? My theory concerning why Honda eliminated the oil cooler on the later models is that it wasn't allowing the oil to reach an adequate operating temperature, under certain conditions.

According to a book I read by Smokey Yunick, the optimum operating temperature for mineral oil is about 230 degees F.

If I had an early model ST1100 with the oil cooler, I would eliminate or bypass the oil cooler.

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I wonder YYYYYY? Honda has a oil cooler on the ST1300? It helps on start up to warm the oil too.

DeanR said:

Mark, I got the Gates belt a while ago from Amazon. It's just been waiting for my courage to get in there.

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I am now trying to install the Gates T325 belt - and it seems to be a hair too short. Has anyone else had this problem with the Gates? (I believe that I have the tensioner in the position that provides the most slack.)


Ray

STraymond said:

I am now trying to install the Gates T325 belt - and it seems to be a hair too short. Has anyone else had this problem with the Gates? (I believe that I have the tensioner in the position that provides the most slack.)


Ray

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Gates fit fine on my '91.