Oil Leak, Water pump leak, Blown rear shock seal...A sad time for STay froSTy

John OoSTerhuis said:

Good job on the seal R&R, Michael. As to the water pump, have you confirmed that it is in fact the source of the coolant leak?? There have been a few reported coolant leaks at the Bypass Hose/Water Pipe connection. What is your rate of coolant loss? I've never heard of a failure of the big water pump o-ring. A new-stock pump comes with the o-ring installed.

John

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Thanks John. I will get the swing arm tool in the mail this weekend.
As for the water pump, I have not confirmed it. It could be the water pipe, but the coolant is seeping from the right side of the pump. I can not see beyond that without radiator removal.

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Leak at weep hole?

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John OoSTerhuis said:

Good job on the seal R&R, Michael. As to the water pump, have you confirmed that it is in fact the source of the coolant leak?? There have been a few reported coolant leaks at the Bypass Hose/Water Pipe connection. What is your rate of coolant loss? I've never heard of a failure of the big water pump o-ring. A new-stock pump comes with the o-ring installed.

John

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Leak at the weep hole?
So it should be replaced?

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You can easily make a swing arm "tool" from a 1 1/8 " socket. Here is the one I made :





As far as the water pump is concerned, it is rebuildable. See this LINK .

If you have yours rebuilt, make sure you use a new seal. Don't re-use the seal out of the donor pump. It will probably be damaged when the donor pump is dissasembled.

Too bad you are from "Down Under" . Otherwise, I could give you an assist rebuilding your pump.

STay froSTy said:

Leak at the weep hole?
So it should be replaced?

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Looks like mine, although yours is 10 years newer. And yes, that's my plan.

Michael, that appears to me to be the weep hole.

Jim, Michael is in NM. And your DIY socket will get the locknut loosened but can't be used to properly tighten it to spec like the Honda Special Tool (hold the pivot bolt's 13 ft lbs of swingarm bearings' preload while applying 76 ft lbs to the locknut, 47mm from the center of the bolt).

John

John OoSTerhuis said:

Michael, that appears to me to be the weep hole.

Jim, Michael is in NM. And your DIY socket will get the locknut loosened but can't be used to properly tighten it to spec like the Honda Special Tool (hold the pivot bolt's 13 ft lbs of swingarm bearings' preload while applying 76 ft lbs to the locknut, 47mm from the center of the bolt).

John

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John:

When I removed my swing arm to grease the bearings, I marked the position of the nut and when I re-assembled, I tightened it until it was in the original position - close enough for government work ( and me ).

But I'll look at my Service Manual to get a better idea what you are referring to.

Not close enough for me, Jim. I worked for the government for 22 years.



John

John:

The U.S. government ??

Jim Van said:

John:

The U.S. government ??

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Heh heh... yes, Jim, the US Army. If I caught a mechanic working on an aircraft I was going to fly and he wasn't going by the manual, with the correct special tool, and didn't use a currently calibrated torque wrench, I'd have referred courts martial charges.

John

John OoSTerhuis said:

Heh heh... yes, Jim, the US Army. If I caught a mechanic working on an aircraft I was going to fly and he wasn't going by the manual, with the correct special tool, and didn't use a currently calibrated torque wrench, I'd have referred courts martial charges.

John

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I have always been a bit (well...a lot) OCD when it comes to life/safety impacting maintenance. My time in the AF just made me worse.

My first biggest lesson was in solder procedures, which we had to recertify on annually. My first refresher showed me how much I had forgotten in just 12 months and how far from acceptable I had drifted as a result. When your life or someone else's depends on proper maintenance, the only way to insure you are doing things 'by the book' is to have said book in front of you.

Little things like improper torque, wrong grade bolt for the stresses, forgotten steps, poor solder connection, cheap/worn out/wrong tools, cheap brake pads, reversed seal, improperly inflated tires....can crash an airplane or bring your bike to a stop in the middle of a busy highway.

Not trying to be a buzz-kill or sound like I'm preaching from the First Book of Honda, Chapter 2, verse 1. There ARE sometimes several ways to accomplish a repair correctly, there are frequently acceptable parts other than OEM. Get the books, use the proper tools, buy OEM equivalent parts, get your butt/bike home safely.

John OoSTerhuis said:

Heh heh... yes, Jim, the US Army. If I caught a mechanic working on an aircraft I was going to fly and he wasn't going by the manual, with the correct special tool, and didn't use a currently calibrated torque wrench, I'd have referred courts martial charges.

John

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Sounds like you were quite a hard-*** back them, John. Why not an Article 13 ? So what happened to turn you into such a nice guy ( now ) ?

John: BTW, I'm planning on doing a Great Lakes SS3K in July. I will be passing through Bettendorf Saturday July 16th at about 10:00 pm. Do you know some place just off I-74 where we can meet and I can by you a cup of coffee , if my ST1100 hasn't broke down by then ? That will be the last day of the ride. Should have done about 2,710 miles at that point with only 306 miles to finish in Kalamazoo.

Jim V.
U.S. Navy '67-'75

John OoSTerhuis said:

Michael, that appears to me to be the weep hole.

Jim, Michael is in NM. And your DIY socket will get the locknut loosened but can't be used to properly tighten it to spec like the Honda Special Tool (hold the pivot bolt's 13 ft lbs of swingarm bearings' preload while applying 76 ft lbs to the locknut, 47mm from the center of the bolt).

John

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John: I question applying 76 ft-lbs ( 47mm from the center of the bolt ) since the spec on the right-hand pivot bolt is also 76 ft-lbs. Seems to me placing a torque wrench 47 mm from the center of the left pivot bolt will over torque it. I think the spec is 76 ft-lbs at the pivot bolt itself, not 47 mm from the center of the bolt.

A torque wrench actually supplies a calibrated force, and the torque depends on the length of the torque wrench. So, with the added 47 mm length, there will be more than 76 ft-lbs of torque applied to the left pivot bolt when the torque wrench applies 76 ft-lbs. So the torque wrench should apply less than 76 ft-lbs 47 mm from the center of the left pivot bolt to supply 76 ft-lbs at the center of the left pivot bolt.

Shouldn't be difficult calculating the required torque (47 mm from the center of the left pivot bolt ) , once the length of the torque wrench being used is measured. I have an old Snap-On "click type" torque wrench ( a souvenir from the de-commissioned U.S.S. Northampton ) that I'll measure to see what the correction should be for my torque wrench.

No way I want to over torque any bolts or nuts on my beloved ST1100.

Jim, you're pretty late to the party. The 'community' hashed this out years ago - Honda's spec'd 76 ft lbs is to be applied at the torque wrench connection point on the spec'd special tool. And/also, with some physics professors weighing in to advise us, optimally the torque wrench should be at a 90 degree angle to the axis of the special tool's 'tang' when the spec'd torque is achieved.

No way in heck that Honda would require it's mechanics to compute their own torque value for a common task for all ST1100s. If you're applying torque to the locknut at any distance other than 47mm you'll have to convert the 76 ft lbs of force to that moment-arm.

The right pivot bolt torque value is to simply fix it firmly/hard to the frame. The left pivot bolt's torque value sets the desired swingarm bearing preload between the two pivot bolts and the bearings' inner races. The locknut's value is to fix the pivot bolt so the bearing preload doesn't change. It's a pretty important suspension component to get right, IMHO. The special tool allows you to hold the left pivot bolt through the center of it so it doesn't move (e.g., increase preload) while fixing it with the locknut.

Many, many of us have followed the book while reassembling our precious ST1100s' swingarms. No known problems.

Edit: rereading your post - 13 ft lbs is applied to the left pivot bolt, NOT 76 ft lbs as you stated.
On the 16th I'll be in northern Minneaota just coming out of the BWCAW.

John

OK, Yes you are correct, I mis-spoke in my post. When I said left pivot bolt, I meant left pivot bolt locknut.
. Yup, the left pivot bolt is torqued to 13 ft-lbs to pre-load the tapered roller bearings in the swingarm.

But sorry John, I don't buy that the locknut should be torqued to more than 76 ft-lbs. And it will be if 76 ft-lbs is applied to the tool. I'm willing to bet the right pivot bolt and the left pivot bolt locknut should be both torqued to 76 ft-lbs. After all, they are both the same thread. That is what determines the required torque value.

And I can't find anywhere in the factory service manual where it says the 76 ft-lbs should be applied to the tool. The manual indicates 76 ft-lbs at the locknut.

And I also disagree with that "90 degree" recommendation. The angle should be ZERO degrees. The tool should basically be a straight extension of the torque wrench.

Also, see : Torque Adaptors

BTW, NASA did a study years ago to determine the best method of torquing a bolt or nut. The results were the best way was to give an experienced tech a wrench ( not a torque wrench ) and tell the tech, " tightened that bolt/nut". A good tech knows by "feel" when the proper torque ( stretch, actually ) is reached.

New question : What is the hex wrench size for the left pivot bolt ??

Jim Van said:

And I can't find anywhere in the factory service manual where it says the 76 ft-lbs should be applied to the tool. The manual indicates the locknut.

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The special tool IS for tightening the locknut! The diagram in the factory manual clearly shows the torque value of the locknut, using the special tool.

Of course it is !!

And Thank You, you are making my argument. Yes, the torque is for the locknut, but not the torque applied to the tool.

Page 14-8 of my "95 edition manual.

We're beating a long-dead horse here, Jim. Sorry.

The Honda Service manual says: "Tighten the nut ["Left pivot lock nut"] with the lock nut wrench (07908-4690002) while holding the left pivot bolt." There's an "S Tool" icon and torque value given in the schematic. Seems pretty clear to me. The Haynes is the same. [edit: see my next post!]

As to positioning the torque wrench please consult your own physics expert. Frankly I didn't get it myself but defer to others that I trust that know more/better.

Again, sorry. I'm done debating, doesn't look like I can change your opinion.

John
via iPhone 6

Haynes manual direct quotes:

".... Install the locknut onto the left side pivot bolt and tighten it to the specified torque setting using a torque wrench applied to the socket in the arm of the special tool ...."
"Note: The specified torque setting takes into account the extra leverage provided by the service tool and cannot be duplicated without it. Counter-hold the pivot bolt to prevent it from turning whilst tightening the locknut."

Haynes' italics, not mine.