Crash avoidance: Do I brake or swerve?

Ashley · Nov 2, 2016

Several members on this forum have hit deer or other objects in the roadway. A question that always comes to me is did they brake or did they swerve. While doing some Googling I cam across some research that backs up my belief that one is better off braking in these situations particularly at higher speeds. Here is the article I found. https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/imsc2006/Shuman-Do_I_Brake_or_Do_I_Swerve-Paper.pdf

Thoughts and discussions?

RCS · Nov 2, 2016

No right answer for all situations. My plan for a Deer only, if it ever happened to me, was to tuck and accelerate through it for three reasons. First, there will be almost no time to react and your hand is already on the accelerator, second the mass and speed of the ST will be more than sufficient to displace the deer, and last, swerving or braking will put you off balance and more likely to go down. That was my plan during my 58,000 highway miles on the ST.

Regarding most other obstacles, swerve. Scrub speed while in a straight line if you have time but swerve, without applying brakes while swerving, is the answer.

Mellow · Nov 2, 2016

Yeah, no right answer for every situation.. most of the time, it happens too fast for a human brain to process and transfer commands to extremities. So, ride more, worry less.

dduelin · Nov 2, 2016

Deer don't stand in the road like a fixed obstacle. I have talked to several riders that hit deer that never saw the deer at all or at most saw a brown swoosh at the moment of impact. I'm not sure the article has much relevance to avoiding forest animals.

Uncle Phil · Nov 2, 2016

FWIW, one night several years ago at the BRG, a ST1300 rider got a deer on the way back from supper. He decided to hold on tight and plow forward. He did stay upright and was able to ride the bike back to camp, but the front end plastic was pretty much gone. But as was said, every situation is different, but I tend to the 'full speed ahead and hold on' approach.

OhioDeere · Nov 2, 2016

I just thought of a good farkle to put on the bike! A machete ! Long machete mounted an the front. Slice right through? I'll get started on some preliminary concept drawings.

Jethro77 · Nov 2, 2016

Depends on the situation, but braking is usually best (especially with awesome ST brakes) swerving typically will only make the crash worse.... FWIW same goes for driving a semi....

if we are only talking about deer then OhioDeere's technique would be best!

ScubaDave · Nov 2, 2016

Being one of the ones who killed a forest rat this year with an ST I can say did neither. I am one who never had time to do anything. I saw a brown flash just as he took the LH mirror off and about 1/2 sec before he went through the headlight. So I was still on the gas when I hit it. I can say however that the ST hardly flinched on impact.

Mellow · Nov 2, 2016

I say you laugh at the face of death....

... you can cry later when no one is looking..

Ashley · Nov 2, 2016

All good responses. I don't exactly worry about forest rats but I do think about them and maybe slow down a little when they are out and about. They don't seem to be a major factor here in Florida. I've always thought keeping it straight and brake if possible is better than swerving and risk going off roading and hitting a tree.

JQL · Nov 2, 2016

If you have time, always aim for where it is when you see it (preferably the rear end) as, by the time you get there, it should have gone. This goes for any moving obstacle. The problem is, of course, the little b's can change their mind and change direction.

Always remember you can manoeuvre under heavy braking. The limiting factor being the adhesion of your tyres.

I used to do a lot of off-road riding of bikes and quads. That teaches you how to manoeuvre under braking in "interesting" conditions (though, usually, at lower speeds). I advocate that we motorcyclists should have at least one day off-roading on a bike every year to hone our skills.

As always, practice makes perfect (or at least, better).

dduelin · Nov 2, 2016

Deer collisions not withstanding I believe the take away from the article is to intensively practice both threshold braking and swerving so you are familiar with the techniques and what you can do on your bike. The number of riders that do nothing added to those that do not successfully execute the chosen maneuver is nothing short of amazing to me.

I'm writing this in full belief that practicing swerves saved my life when a farm tractor came out of the woods and began to cross the road ahead of me. At 70 mph I juked left / right and went around him. If I did nothing or braked I would have center punched him. My riding partner behind thought I went off into the woods on the left as the tractor blocked his view. He saw me swerve so hard he thought it was impossible to return back to straight ahead.

I suggest reading The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle by Bernt Speigel. As riders we do what we train for. The time to practice emergency maneuvers is well spent if we only use it once a lifetime.

schlep1967 · Nov 2, 2016

Whatever it takes to survive is the most correct answer. One thing to keep in mind though. If you swerve to miss the deer and leave the road and hit a tree you just made matters worse on several levels. The average deer is 150 lbs or less and you are taking it on with 1,000 lbs of moving mass. If you stay straight and keep the bike upright you have a pretty good chance provided the deer doesn't come in too high and take you out directly. Hard braking and scrubbing off speed if you have the time reduces damage to you.

One thing I've seen in several cases with cages. If you swerve to miss a deer and head off the road damaging the car it is now an at fault crash. If you hit the deer it is an act of god. With the bike this only matters to you if you survive to fight the insurance company.

W0QNX · Nov 2, 2016

"Crash avoidance: Do I brake or swerve?"

With many years of riding in cattle country where the "rats" are 4 times bigger than any deer....I say keep your insurance's paid up. Be it life, bike or spiritual.

I've braked hard far more times (for deer, dogs, small animals) than I have ever swerved but when a 900 pound cow steps out from a bush beside the road I swerve!! And it's been two days since I've had cattle in the road.

Oh and you DUCK for pheasants, vultures, pigeons and turkeys.

playinatwork · Nov 2, 2016

I've hit 2 deer this year so far. Both times I didn't have time to react. One resulted in a violent crash and the other ended with some deer poop and hair on my front rim.
I got nothing.

Ashley · Nov 2, 2016

dduelin said:
Deer collisions not withstanding I believe the take away from the article is to intensively practice both threshold braking and swerving so you are familiar with the techniques and what you can do on your bike. The number of riders that do nothing added to those that do not successfully execute the chosen maneuver is nothing short of amazing to me.

I'm writing this in full belief that practicing swerves saved my life when a farm tractor came out of the woods and began to cross the road ahead of me. At 70 mph I juked left / right and went around him. If I did nothing or braked I would have center punched him. My riding partner behind thought I went off into the woods on the left as the tractor blocked his view. He saw me swerve so hard he thought it was impossible to return back to straight ahead.

I suggest reading The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle by Bernt Speigel. As riders we do what we train for. The time to practice emergency maneuvers is well spent if we only use it once a lifetime.

Or maybe a blue hair is driving on the wrong side of I10?:roll:

Ashley · Nov 2, 2016

ZIAMON said:
"Crash avoidance: Do I brake or swerve?"

With many years of riding in cattle country where the "rats" are 4 times bigger than any deer....I say keep your insurance's paid up. Be it life, bike or spiritual.

I've braked hard far more times (for deer, dogs, small animals) than I have ever swerved but when a 900 pound cow steps out from a bush beside the road I swerve!! And it's been two days since I've had cattle in the road.

Oh and you DUCK for pheasants, vultures, pigeons and turkeys.

I ducked for the buzzard I hit and it broke my windshield and smacked me in the top of the helmet pretty good. Stayed straight and upright.

dduelin · Nov 2, 2016

Ashley said:
Or maybe a blue hair is driving on the wrong side of I10?:roll:

Yes, I forgot about that close call.

ReSTored · Nov 2, 2016

For me chipmunks, squirrels, cats (about 5 - 6 lbs SH if you're seeing this Dean), small dogs and such mean hold on tight, no braking and no swerving. Too dangerous and I can probably ride out the impact. I've done this a few times and so far no impact and no bad outcomes. Deer, on the other hand, I really don't know. To date, 2 or 3 near misses where deer are about 10 -15 ft ft away when I pass so I'm not quite sure what I'd do if I really thought there was a chance of collision. I'll let you know when/if it happens.

Ashley · Nov 2, 2016

ReSTored said:
For me chipmunks, squirrels, cats (about 5 - 6 lbs SH if you're seeing this Dean), small dogs and such mean hold on tight, no braking and no swerving.

If it fits in a skillet, kill it.

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Crash avoidance: Do I brake or swerve?

Ashley

RCS

Mellow

Joe

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

Uncle Phil

OhioDeere

Been There, Done That, Got the Shirt.

Jethro77

ScubaDave

Mellow

Joe

Ashley

JQL

Growing old disgracefully :)

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

schlep1967

Bill

W0QNX

Blacksheep Tribal Member

playinatwork

Ashley

Ashley

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace

ReSTored

Ashley