Crash avoidance: Do I brake or swerve?

[dduelin]

Risky business that lane splitting.

 

[Larry Fine]

How about mounting a Klingon Bat'leth on the front ? Machete is too short !

Star Trek Klingon Bat’leth Best Replica - SwordsKingdom

Elegant Design, Hot Selling Item, Full Tang, Buy Now Star Trek Klingon Bat’leth Replica made of high-quality stainless steel from our store.

swordskingdom.com

Now, whether to mount it vertically or horizontally?

 

[TourNut]

Now, whether to mount it vertically or horizontally?

Have 2 , 90 degrees apart & spinning .

 

[jfheath]

Ah. That made me jump - but I was already rather gripped by the speed between the vehicles.

 

[Larry Fine]

Legal or not, it would be very difficult mentally to get myself to lane-split in moving traffic.

Having the legal right-of-way does not prevent the car driver from doing exactly what that one did.

I'd rather not crash than do so and be able to blame someone else for it happening.

 

[TourNut]

Legal or not, it would be very difficult mentally to get myself to lane-split in moving traffic.

Having the legal right-of-way does not prevent the car driver from doing exactly what that one did.

I'd rather not crash than do so and be able to blame someone else for it happening.

Yeah It does you no good to be right , but dead anyway .

 

[SupraSabre]

You guys crack me up!

You have NO Idea what you are talking about!

I have been Lane Splitting for over 49 years. I have put on over 655,500 miles during that time. MOST of those miles were commuter miles. Most of my routes for commuting required me to Lane Split!

So for 49 years and over 650,000 miles I have a little bang up from some dumbo that can't look in his mirrors, and you all fall apart because I was lane splitting?

I got news for you! Back in 2008, I WAS IN MY LANE (NOT Lane Splitting) when some bozo did the same exact thing, because he thought the lane was open, and didn't bother looking in his mirror! So it really doesn't matter whether I Lane Split or not, the same thing can happen!

This has been the ONLY (ONE!) ACCIDENT I have had, due to lane splitting.

It was actually proven (By the UC Berkeley) a few years ago, that Lane Splitting is safer, than sitting in slow n go traffic!

And BTW, the Cop put the guy that hit me, at 100% fault! Thanks to that video!

 

[Larry Fine]

I meant no criticism of anyone else. I was only talking about my own nerves.

I'm sure I could get used to it over time. After all, I couldn't always corner like I can now.

 

[dduelin]

Even when the other guy is found legally 100% at fault it's surprising that you cannot see what you did to contribute to being knocked to the ground. There's the saying "you can be dead right and still dead".

I think for me, speaking only for me, what the video shows is a rider placing himself in a situation where lanes of escape were narrow because differential of speed reduced time to take evasive action. The accepted maximum speed differential in CA during lane splitting is commonly given as 10 mph or less. Excessive differential of speed also reduced time for drivers to see you. It's trusting countless drivers to not shut down your only path of escape. What is that other thing we say, "ride like most drivers don't see us and the few that do are out to kill us?"

I'll not say that lane splitting shouldn't be legal, didn't here and never will, but riding 30 to 45 mph, covering 45 feet per second at 30 mph, over two car lengths per second, in nearly stopped or stopped traffic is a risky business no matter how long you get away with it.

 

[Sadlsor]

Speaking for me, I have no problem with the concept of lane splitting, as well as filtering to the front of lines of traffic - say, at a traffic light.
I choose to live where I do, in large part for the nearly-endless riding season, and the *relatively* low traffic density (and all things are relative, obviously.) Yet we still have high-traffic times and specific areas, and lane splitting by 2-wheelers *should* be allowed.
Now, that said, even IF lane splitting were made legal in my state, I acknowledge that even after a 3-5 year driver awareness campaign, there still will be ignorant drivers. Always will be. And there will also be inattentive / distracted drivers, and that will only be getting worse due to no enforcement or penalties, at least not to the degree that the public is aware of it.
So once it were made legal here, I would be nervous for the first couple of years.
And while I'm tempted to bring up Euro-laws, it would be pointless, due to the innumerable differences in driving habits, culture, and everything else.

 

[SupraSabre]

I've always said, no one is twisting your arm to Lane Split and if you don't feel comfortable doing, don't.

But I don't feel comfortable having some cage behind me and there is a good chance that he/she is on their phone and not paying any attention to me!

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you think I was going? Did anyone look at my speed? I really wasn't going that fast!

 

[Sadlsor]

I've always said, no one is twisting your arm to Lane Split and if you don't feel comfortable doing, don't.
<SNIP>

Totally agree - ALWAYS gotta ride yer own ride. That goes anywhere, any time.
While I would be nervous, I would still do it were it legal here. Pros and cons, I see the pros. I'd be super-aware, to be sure.

 

[dduelin]

Isn't the question how fast were the other vehicles going and how did speed differential become a contributing factor?

Of course we looked at the speed, see post #49. Did you read CHP Guideline #1?

It's foggy, the merge ramp on the right is a choke point, traffic bunched up and nearly stopped, you entered the bumper to bumper gaggle at 41 mph and were doing 29 at impact.




What Are California’s Lane Splitting Rules?
Posted on August 25, 2019 by Needham Kepner & Fish LLP

We have all seen motorcycle riders riding between lanes of traffic, either to get to their destinations faster or to avoid rear-end collisions. Also known as “lane splitting,” motorcycle riders in California can legally ride between lanes of traffic. Lane splitting can reduce traffic congestion and in some cases may help riders avoid motorcycle accidents.
California was the first state in the United States to legally recognize the practice of lane splitting. Before 2016, lane splitting was not illegal, but also not codified into state law.
Under the new law, the California Highway Patrol (CHP) wrote guidelines for engaging in safe lane splitting. Those guidelines are listed below:

• Motorcyclists should avoid riding at speeds of 10 miles per hour greater than surrounding traffic. According to the CHP, lane splitting dangers increase at higher speed differentials.
• Motorcyclists should avoid lane splitting when surrounding traffic is moving at 30 miles per hour or faster.
• The CHP suggests that motorcyclists should consider the surrounding environment before lane splitting. Motorcyclists should take into account lane width, the size of surrounding vehicles, weather and lighting conditions.
• The CHP recommends lane splitting between the far-left lanes because it is safer than lane splitting between other lanes of traffic.
• Motorcyclists should avoid lane splitting around large vehicles, such as commercial trucks or buses.
• Motorcyclists should avoid riding in the blind spots of other vehicles or lingering between vehicles.
• Under California law, it is illegal to ride in the shoulder lane. Riding in the shoulder lane is not lane splitting.
• To maximize safety while lane splitting, the CHP recommends increasing visibility by wearing bright clothing and reflective gear. Motorcyclists should also use their high beams during daylight hours.

 

[ad.hom]

You guys crack me up!

Don't worry Bob, I'm with you on this.

Yes I filter/split slower, but most of you have seen my video, traffic is a lot closer together for me!

 

[Larry Fine]

Just out of curiosity, how fast do you think I was going? Did anyone look at my speed? I really wasn't going that fast!

I noticed the speed difference more than the absolute speeds.

 

[SupraSabre]

Isn't the question how fast were the other vehicles going and how did speed differential become a contributing factor?

Of course we looked at the speed, see post #49. Did you read CHP Guideline #1?

It's foggy, the merge ramp on the right is a choke point, traffic bunched up and nearly stopped, you entered the bumper to bumper gaggle at 41 mph and were doing 29 at impact.




What Are California’s Lane Splitting Rules?
Posted on August 25, 2019 by Needham Kepner & Fish LLP

We have all seen motorcycle riders riding between lanes of traffic, either to get to their destinations faster or to avoid rear-end collisions. Also known as “lane splitting,” motorcycle riders in California can legally ride between lanes of traffic. Lane splitting can reduce traffic congestion and in some cases may help riders avoid motorcycle accidents.
California was the first state in the United States to legally recognize the practice of lane splitting. Before 2016, lane splitting was not illegal, but also not codified into state law.
Under the new law, the California Highway Patrol (CHP) wrote guidelines for engaging in safe lane splitting. Those guidelines are listed below:

• Motorcyclists should avoid riding at speeds of 10 miles per hour greater than surrounding traffic. According to the CHP, lane splitting dangers increase at higher speed differentials.
• Motorcyclists should avoid lane splitting when surrounding traffic is moving at 30 miles per hour or faster.
• The CHP suggests that motorcyclists should consider the surrounding environment before lane splitting. Motorcyclists should take into account lane width, the size of surrounding vehicles, weather and lighting conditions.
• The CHP recommends lane splitting between the far-left lanes because it is safer than lane splitting between other lanes of traffic.
• Motorcyclists should avoid lane splitting around large vehicles, such as commercial trucks or buses.
• Motorcyclists should avoid riding in the blind spots of other vehicles or lingering between vehicles.
• Under California law, it is illegal to ride in the shoulder lane. Riding in the shoulder lane is not lane splitting.
• To maximize safety while lane splitting, the CHP recommends increasing visibility by wearing bright clothing and reflective gear. Motorcyclists should also use their high beams during daylight hours.

As STATED, those are Guidelines! They are not set in stone. Besides, I follow the Berkeley Study on Lane Splitting: Berkeley Study
"...found that lane-splitting is relatively safe if done in traffic moving at 50 mph or less, and if motorcyclists do not exceed the speed of other vehicles by more than 15 mph. "

Every time Lane Splitting comes up on the forum, most riders that are in the states, but not from Kaliforniastan, have a real problem with Lane Splitting and I can see why, if you are not used to it, it can seem scary.

I have been lane splitting the same freeways (I15, SR56, I5, I805) since November 2008, with many close calls, whether or not you are lane splitting (It's called commuting on a motorcycle in very heavy traffic). At least most folks give you some indication that they are going to change lanes, so you have time to slow down, speed up, hit the horn or all three! This guy did not give me a chance to do anything.

Before the law was passed, if you were caught lane splitting, it was up to the cop to cite you. But very few got cited and most judges let them off anyway.

I was never pulled over for lane splitting. Except for one time when I was pulled over for someone else lane splitting. After we were stopped on the side of the road and the cop came up to me, he realized I wasn't the guy he saw lane splitting. This was back in '87 and traffic was going about 55 at the time.

One thing I'll miss in Utah, is being able to lane split as much. They do have a law that allows it, but very restricted.

 

[dduelin]

Keeping this discussion in context and on topic, the position taken was sometimes you don’t have time to react. Yes, that is true but sometimes we can see a developing situation and we can take action to open sight lines and open the bubble of space we will occupy in the next few seconds and take back some time and distance to react. Time and distance needed to react are what created and shaped the lane splitting guidelines.

So, the question isn’t if lane splitting is scary or unsafe but whether if the speed differential of approximately 20-25 mph at impact was a contributing factor and was factor within your control? If it was, then adherence to the guidelines could have given time to react.

 

[Portpandon]

Sadlsor said......."even IF lane splitting were made legal in my state, I acknowledge that even after a 3-5 year driver awareness campaign, there still will be ignorant drivers".

Yep!

Lane splitting has always been legal in the UK, yet the majority of drivers have no knowledge of it and continue to change lanes without looking, swerve to actively block bikes etc etc.
When an accident happens their first reaction is to blame the bike, and some insurance company's will try to do the same.
Ignorance, arrogance and incompetence are common traits all over the world.
Yes..there is a level of risk attached, but then we ride bikes, we already accept certain levels of risk.

Back to the topic

Brake or swerve?
In the last few years I have had 3 occasions when a car has pulled out in front of me, on 2 of those I swerved hard left / right and went around the back of the car.
The other time I braked, very hard.
Neither manoeuvre was a conscious decision, it was instantaneous reaction.
On the 2 occasions when I swerved, there was room to go around the back of the car, on the occasion when I braked, there wasn't.
The brain makes an instant decision based on your experience, ability, and the scenario.
No conscious thought involved, survival instincts!

Just my thoughts on it, YMMV

Ride safe folks
Don

 

[ad.hom]

If it was, then adherence to the guidelines could have given time to react.

Sorry, but judging solely on Bob's video (as that's the only information we have, other than Bob's word)... but if Bob had been doing 3mph, and the car 1mph, Bob would still have been hit. The guy plainly didn't look, and appears to me that he hit the gas in order to promptly change lanes (like many of us do). Lower speeds, less energy involved, less damage done - but Bob's bike would still have been damaged regardless.

Lane splitting has always been legal in the UK, yet the majority of drivers have no knowledge of it and continue to change lanes without looking, swerve to actively block bikes etc etc.
When an accident happens their first reaction is to blame the bike, and some insurance company's will try to do the same.

Our legal system is slightly different than in the US. My understanding of the US system is "this is the rules, and everyone is expected to know them, and will be judged against them when something goes wrong."

Here in the UK, a bike involved in an incident while lane splitting/filtering usually takes some part of the blame, if not most - precisely because the legal framework acknowledges that most car drivers expect all other vehicles to be cars, and behave like cars, even though we're allowed to behave differently on two wheels. Effectively, our system boils down to "if it's unsafe, you don't do it. If it's unsafe and you do it, it's your fault, regardless of the law."

Animals, random mud on the road mid bend, oil spills etc are all rather random (to one degree or another) and I'll take my chances. It's the biped animals in 70mph metal boxes that scare me the most.