2010 Pricing ST vs RT

[TPadden]

Jinx!!!!! :::

Does plugging tires count as maintenance :??????

 

[Bones]

Does plugging tires count as maintenance :??????

Absolutely. Go buy a new bike, Colonel, the economy could use the boost.

 

[Judge]

The pricing gap may have closed but it's still two very different motorcycles. By all reason the RT should cost much less. It's not a liquid cooled V4.

Ray

That's an inaccurate assessment to be fair.

The RT has a more sophisticated and costly suspension, The ST has liquid cooling (whoppee).

Both have engineering differences that represent costs/benefits. Bottom line is they cost what they cost, not what we think they "should" cost.

 

[teglasscock]

If you have enough bikes in the stable, you never have to do maintenance! Just keep shorting the right stocks and start with new ones.

I think Bones has the right approach! Now if I could just convince my wife....

 

[hojo in sc]

Yes, it is a lot easier on the BMW to check/adjust the valves but working on the bikes isn't really a chore - I enjoy the time. Since I do the valves three times as often on the BMW I am not sure I save any time over the ST though and by the time I throw in the air filter and hydraulic system flush which I do at valve checks things are about even. Does your GSA have a final drive drain or is it one of the model years that you have to practically disassemble the FD to change the "lifetime" FD lubricant?

My GSA has the plug.

 

[hojo in sc]

A friend of mine rides a BMW boxer...just today, he was talking about the 5 hours of labor the dealer charged (@ $90/Hr) to change the brake fluid in his ABS bike...

Tell him to get Jim's vido on "How to" and save some money. I paid over $400.00 to repair an oil leak on my ST, can't tell ya how happy I was to have it in the shop from Oct thru Feb. Sure glad I had another bike to ride during that time. Oh, and the parts were on back order, that is why the long wait.

 

[okmurdog]

Tell him to get Jim's vido on "How to" and save some money. I paid over $400.00 to repair an oil leak on my ST, can't tell ya how happy I was to have it in the shop from Oct thru Feb. Sure glad I had another bike to ride during that time. Oh, and the parts were on back order, that is why the long wait.

I don't think he's really much of a do-it-yourself type of person -

 

[nm6r]

That's an inaccurate assessment to be fair.

The RT has a more sophisticated and costly suspension, The ST has liquid cooling (whoppee).

Both have engineering differences that represent costs/benefits. Bottom line is they cost what they cost, not what we think they "should" cost.

Actually, an accurate comparison would be the ST1300 and the K1200GT/K1300GT (the two models cover the same years as the ST1300). They are as similar as possible. The RT is a different beast.

Ray

 

[TPadden]

Actually, an accurate comparison would be the ST1300 and the K1200GT/K1300GT (the two models cover the same years as the ST1300). They are as similar as possible. The RT is a different beast.

Ray

Not really, what we are really comparing is the bike's purpose or mission. There is no doubt in my mind that the RT is as much, if not more, of a (2-up) sport tourer as the ST. Anyone looking to buy the ST should also look at the FJR, Concours, RT and GT.

For a 1-up sport tourer I'd add the NT, Triumph Sprint, F800, and Multistrada (all come up set up to tour). With a few accessories you can add the VFR, Bandit, VStrom, Versys, FZ1, and others to the list.

Isn't it great to have competitive choices???????

 

[Sechskant]

The base RT is comparable to the ST but if you add the goodies you're not walking out the door without dropping 20k (good deals on 09's but still requires some overtime) Worth it for me but that's a big YMMV

 

[GetaHandleOnit]

I don't think he's really much of a do-it-yourself type of person -

To be fair, We do have TECH EVENTS that others will gladly assist and/or do the work for you (if you don't stop them ) :tools1:

I was overwhelmed at the thought of a tire change, until I saw it done in my very own driveway by a FANTASTIC member of this forum, for another member. ( He did many that day, at the Tech Event). :1st:

I am not sure about the mandatory requirements for service issues that must be done by the dealer, but it appears that many of those operating costs can be a lot less by belonging to this very forum!

 

[ST4Sal]

I considered a BMw before I bought my ST Both had different advantages.

Final decision made on number of dealers Honda had vs BMW As I planned on riding NOT servicing my bike I went with the Honda and have never looked back That was BEFORE I heard about the Final Drive problems on BMw's

 

[okmurdog]

I don't know a lot of people but I do know personally four people that experienced final drive or shaft failures on late model BMW's. 2007 12RT - Bernie's leaked and required FD replacement at 36 or 37,000 miles. BMW made good on the warranty even though it expired at 36,000 miles. That saved him over $2000. 2005 12RT - driveshaft broke in two at weld point causing rear wheel to lock up at 70 mph while passing a semi on the interstate. Bill drifted into the median which probably saved him from going down at a good clip. Good thing he had not passed the truck and gotten over in the right lane. BMW refused to talk warranty but to be fair it was at about 55,000 miles and beyond 3 years. 2005 R12GS that had 5 FDs in 3 years. Bill is a high mileage rider and the 5 repairs were in the 3 year warranty period. He reached about 175,000 miles before warranty expired at 36 months. He bought another GS1200. 1999??? LT that belonged to Tom leaked at 104,000 miles or so. Three of these live within 15 miles of me.

In contrast I only know of one Honda FD failure - Karen's ST1100 and I think CrazyK and a Brit rider had U-joints go bad at around 175,000.

I know, totally unscientific population sample but I would say it jives with conventional wisdom that BMW has a failure rate of perhaps 5% in late model bikes. BMW Owner News, the magazine of BMW Owners of America, has run FD service articles that suggest the same figure. For the best engineered MC in the world that figure is about 4.9999% too high. BMW has had 88 years to refine shaft drives. Everyone else not so long.

Of course, that is 95% that have no FD problems at all. If you are in the 5% and out of warranty that's another matter and it will drive up their cost of ownership.

I know two people who ride beemers - one on a boxer, the other on a RT. The person on the RT was stranded in Ohio last year due to a FD failure...

 

[Sechskant]

The RT is a boxer. I've seen it figured as 1%, dduelin knows it as 5%. Don't know if we will ever know the exact number. Some list the failure to include all issues - bearings, shafts, crack in wheel flange at rotor bolt location, loose wheel flange on spline, seal leak. The 1% relates to a bearing failure that reguires a re-build or replacement of the drive. Sure don't want to be in the 1 - 5% when it's out of warranty but I'll ride now and worry about it later.

Well the RT can be other series such as K100RT, etc Just used to seeing the RT of late being the R1200RT, soooooo saying it's a boxer isn't exactly accurate <------- this is me back pedaling I should be a politician : Just kidding to all the politicians out there <------- more back pedaling

Jake

 

[okmurdog]

The RT is a boxer. I've seen it figured as 1%, dduelin knows it as 5%. Don't know if we will ever know the exact number. Some list the failure to include all issues - bearings, shafts, crack in wheel flange at rotor bolt location, loose wheel flange on spline, seal leak. The 1% relates to a bearing failure that reguires a re-build or replacement of the drive. Sure don't want to be in the 1 - 5% when it's out of warranty but I'll ride now and worry about it later.

Well the RT can be other series such as K100RT, etc Just used to seeing the RT of late being the R1200RT, soooooo saying it's a boxer isn't exactly accurate <------- this is me back pedaling I should be a politician : Just kidding to all the politicians out there <------- more back pedaling

Jake

You're right...I should have been more specific. One is on a R1200C, the other on a R1200RT. I look at the C differently and call it a boxer, although more correctly both bikes are...