veefore
See you at my intervention!
Have you spent time 2up? Just wondering how it is for a passenger and how the power is (loaded down).
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2013 BMW F800GT
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
ST13Fred
Fred
My bike has relatively low mileage still; I put some serious miles on my ST13 (Blue). The F is not a long haul bike for me, so I don't have a lot of seat time on it, one or two up; but some.
With my girlfriend on board (she is an excellent passenger, by the way) I don't even know she is back there, all I have to do is let it rev and the power is there.
It certainly does not have the raw pull of the ST13, but the fun factor of that Can...........well, I love it, more than makes up for that. It really is a smooth and sweet sounding ride, no matter where the tach needle is.
The ST13 stuck to the road like glue; that bike rocked. The F is much lighter and I DO know it will slide easier under (non Honda ABS) braking, for that reason. I've charged Blue into turns much harder than I might the F.
It's lightness has me not as brave as I was a few years back on Blue. I cannot speak on how the suspension works, one OR two up; suffice it to say I have no problems to date.
Since retiring back to WV USA there is a lot of gas well drilling going on in my area now and with that goes some challenging road surfaces.
The bike is a sport bike and not a sport tourer. A younger rider can get on my bike though and tour, with the tall shied, raised bars and lowered pegs. I'm just not that young guy. But the F will always make me feel young.
With my girlfriend on board (she is an excellent passenger, by the way) I don't even know she is back there, all I have to do is let it rev and the power is there.
It certainly does not have the raw pull of the ST13, but the fun factor of that Can...........well, I love it, more than makes up for that. It really is a smooth and sweet sounding ride, no matter where the tach needle is.
The ST13 stuck to the road like glue; that bike rocked. The F is much lighter and I DO know it will slide easier under (non Honda ABS) braking, for that reason. I've charged Blue into turns much harder than I might the F.
It's lightness has me not as brave as I was a few years back on Blue. I cannot speak on how the suspension works, one OR two up; suffice it to say I have no problems to date.
Since retiring back to WV USA there is a lot of gas well drilling going on in my area now and with that goes some challenging road surfaces.
The bike is a sport bike and not a sport tourer. A younger rider can get on my bike though and tour, with the tall shied, raised bars and lowered pegs. I'm just not that young guy. But the F will always make me feel young.
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OP
OP
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
I still haven't ridden any F-powered BMW and what keeps me from giving it serious consideration is the characteristic that every journo tester references: vibration. Even with that nifty counter-rotating contraption in the Rotax motor, there's only so much you can do to calm a 360 degree parallel twin.
Mark Tuttle at Rider just tested the new GT and referenced "... its biggest weakness—buzzy vibration that is present in the grips, seat and footpegs at any engine speed above about 3,800 rpm. Despite the engine counterbalancing, the solid-mounted twin still passes along some vibration." And, "Assuming the vibes aren’t an issue, it would make a great lightweight sport tourer for a long-distance rider..."
Kevin Ash (RIP) gave BMW a constant thrashing across the model lineup for vibration and in his review of the F800GS he referenced "an old BMW bugbear, vibration, does become an issue at steady motorway speeds, when the motor buzzes harshly through the seat and handlebars. As this is exactly the sort of use the bike will get it is disappointing..."
Google "F800 + vibration" and you could spend an eternity reading the returns.
Anyone who knows me knows I think the ST is is overweight, but she's smooooooth. That still takes the cake for me, for now anyway.
Mark Tuttle at Rider just tested the new GT and referenced "... its biggest weakness—buzzy vibration that is present in the grips, seat and footpegs at any engine speed above about 3,800 rpm. Despite the engine counterbalancing, the solid-mounted twin still passes along some vibration." And, "Assuming the vibes aren’t an issue, it would make a great lightweight sport tourer for a long-distance rider..."
Kevin Ash (RIP) gave BMW a constant thrashing across the model lineup for vibration and in his review of the F800GS he referenced "an old BMW bugbear, vibration, does become an issue at steady motorway speeds, when the motor buzzes harshly through the seat and handlebars. As this is exactly the sort of use the bike will get it is disappointing..."
Google "F800 + vibration" and you could spend an eternity reading the returns.
Anyone who knows me knows I think the ST is is overweight, but she's smooooooth. That still takes the cake for me, for now anyway.
OP
OP
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
The motor in your 650R (like my Versys) has a 180 degree crank which gives it a "chitty chitty bang bang" firing sequence and, from all I've read, it's one of the least vibey parallel twins out there. I rode my Versys to and from a test ride on an R1200RT and found the Versys noticeably less vibey than the boxer.
Then I get on my ST and realize there's nothing like a Honda V4, even in a porky package. I think after 10 years on an ST I'm spoiled.
OP
OP
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
From what I have read, BMW chose that design so the F-series motors would mimic the thlumpy* character of the boxer motor, which is near and dear to many Beemerphiles.
* There an onomatopoeia for you!
Cunados
STexan 1300
For the laymen could someone please explain the difference between a 180 and 360 degree crank? And 180 isn't the answer I'm looking for ;-) Recently I seem to recall an reading an article where the engine was a 270.
Thank you in advance.
MTGMTT
Thank you in advance.
MTGMTT
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A 180 degree crank looks like the pedals on a bicycle. As a parallel twin one piston is at the top of it's stroke the other one is opposite and all the way down at the bottom of it's stroke.
A 360 crankshaft parallel twin has both pistons rising and falling together. If it was a bicycle crank the pedals would go around side-by-side and the rider's feet would go up and down at the same time.
The ST1300 is two of these together. Pistons 1 & 3 rise/fall together as do 2 & 4.
The dual set of crank throws have perfect primary balance and the engine is pretty smooth on it's own. Add a counterbalancer or two to cancel the secondary imbalances and the engine is very smooth.
A 270 crank has the crank throws 90 degrees apart. When one piston is top dead center the other one is half way up or down. After a cylinder fires there is a long 270 degree pause, the other fires, then 450 degrees later the first one fires again. The NC700X has this arrangement as does the Triumph America twin. Although a parallel twin they mimic a V twin with the cylinders set 90 degrees apart. With the NC700's 1 counterbalancer and low rpm range it is very smooth and has almost no vibration and what there is low frequency and more of a pulse than a buzz.
A 360 crankshaft parallel twin has both pistons rising and falling together. If it was a bicycle crank the pedals would go around side-by-side and the rider's feet would go up and down at the same time.
The ST1300 is two of these together. Pistons 1 & 3 rise/fall together as do 2 & 4.
The dual set of crank throws have perfect primary balance and the engine is pretty smooth on it's own. Add a counterbalancer or two to cancel the secondary imbalances and the engine is very smooth.
A 270 crank has the crank throws 90 degrees apart. When one piston is top dead center the other one is half way up or down. After a cylinder fires there is a long 270 degree pause, the other fires, then 450 degrees later the first one fires again. The NC700X has this arrangement as does the Triumph America twin. Although a parallel twin they mimic a V twin with the cylinders set 90 degrees apart. With the NC700's 1 counterbalancer and low rpm range it is very smooth and has almost no vibration and what there is low frequency and more of a pulse than a buzz.
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ST13Fred
Fred
In reference to Bones comment on the F800 vibration, my F8 is really smooth. I never feel anything annoying in the bars or pegs. The motor is counter balanced quite well. There is a little blur in the mirrors at certain revs but nothing bad.
With my CATless can, tall clear shield, lowered pegs, smooth shifting 6 speed and bar risers, it is as fun a sport bike as any out there. And the BMW badging only adds to its' curb appeal.
The high compression Rotax motor is quite a beast and gives it character no Jap bike can match, IMO.......if only BMW could match the maintenance books of Honda.
With my CATless can, tall clear shield, lowered pegs, smooth shifting 6 speed and bar risers, it is as fun a sport bike as any out there. And the BMW badging only adds to its' curb appeal.
The high compression Rotax motor is quite a beast and gives it character no Jap bike can match, IMO.......if only BMW could match the maintenance books of Honda.
OP
OP
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
As I mentioned, I have not ridden an F800. I also have not read any published reviews that don't reference vibes. Glad you enjoy yours...that's what it's all about.
I don't have a lot of experience on the F800 but I test rode a F800GS for an hour on Tuesday and I found the vibrations to be acceptable, there was some vibration as you wound the engine but just enough to remind you to shift. The fastest stretch we went 120 km/h and the bike was fine, maybe faster speeds would be different but don't have many opportunities were I could ride faster and keep my license. The seat on the other hand was already making itself felt. The seat problem seems to be common complaint about many bikes and the F800 does offer various factory options, since I had no trouble flat footing the bike as equipped I would probably go for the comfort version and see if it helps.
Gerhard
Gerhard
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