4-Way stops (shouldn't be that hard)

[Beeflips]

4-Way stops, we have probably all experienced them. Daily, I have to go through three of them, taking my usual back roads route. In Michigan, the rule is, the first there and stopped is the first to go thru the intersection. If two people stop at the same time, from intersecting directions, the one on the right has the right of way, left turn yields to straight through etc...
One thing that I have noticed more and more when dealing with these intersections, is that when I'm on my bike, I have people (even though they get to the intersection way before me, they stop, and wave me through, even though I have stopped and put my feet down.
Preferably, I wish that they would just follow the rules of first there, first to leave. When a third car is present, then it can cause confusion about the hierarchy at the 4-way, someone has to make a decision. Just follow the damn instructions.

 

[W0QNX]

It seems even fewer realize that almost the same rules exist at a 2 way stop where the signs are across from each other. First at the intersection has the right of way no matter which direction they plan to travel.

 

[ddemair]

It seems even fewer realize that almost the same rules exist at a 2 way stop where the signs are across from each other. First at the intersection has the right of way no matter which direction they plan to travel.

I, for one, was totally unaware of that. I thought if you were making a left turn across from someone going straight, they had the right of way.

Maybe it varies by state?

 

[Bush]

Eliminating them altogether by creating roundabouts is the most efficient solution for intersections, but that requires people to learn how tp properly use them.

Long a standard practice at many British intersections, where drivers know the rules, we are just starting to see more of them around cities, but cone headed drivers suddenly don't think of them as intersections anymore and fail to use their turn signals, just taking whatever exit they like and holding up the entering traffic because they don't know the other guy's intentions!

Very frustrating and there seems to be no education process being instituted by road authorities to tell the lazy drivers how to use them properly.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

I vaguely remember this from 35 years ago. Glad to refresh. In the NE US it's a bit more aggressive, if you stop the other guy goes, if you go the other guy waits.



First to arrive, first to go
The first car to pull up to the stop sign is the first car that gets to proceed. If cars are all stopping at the intersection at different times, each should proceed through in the order they arrived. It doesn’t matter which direction a car is going either. Just like in kindergarten, you wait for your turn and don’t cut in line.

Tie goes to the right
Sometimes two cars stop at the intersection at the exact same time, or at least close to the same time. If it isn’t clear which car was there first, the law says the car on the right has the right-of-way. If another car has pulled up to the intersection, the cars that arrived at the same time both go through the intersection first.

Straight before turns
If two cars are across the intersection from each other at the same time, and no car is on the right of the other, it depends on the traveling direction of the two cars. If they are both going straight, they can go at the same time without any problems. If one vehicle is turning and one is going straight, the right-of-way goes to the car going straight.

Right then left
If two cars are directly across from each other and pull up to the four-way stop at the same time and one is turning right and one is turning left, the right-of-way goes to the vehicle turning right. Since they are both trying to turn into the same lane of traffic, it makes sense that the vehicle turning right would go first because they are the closest to the lane.

The best way to stay safe at a four-way stop is to communicate. The laws that dictate right-of-way based on turning direction show that communicating through signals is vital. If there is any doubt on whose turn it is, wave people through or motion that it is their turn to let them know that you intend to wait for them to go before pulling into the intersection.

 

[Uncle Phil]

The danger for motorcyclists at 4-way stops is the fact that some folks do not obey the rules and have no intention of obeying the rules.
I never assume they will and it has saved my bacon more than once!
Whether they have the 'right of way' or not, they always have the 'right of weight'!

 

[dduelin]

Eliminating them altogether by creating roundabouts is the most efficient solution for intersections, but that requires people to learn how tp properly use them.

Long a standard practice at many British intersections, where drivers know the rules, we are just starting to see more of them around cities, but cone headed drivers suddenly don't think of them as intersections anymore and fail to use their turn signals, just taking whatever exit they like and holding up the entering traffic because they don't know the other guy's intentions!

Very frustrating and there seems to be no education process being instituted by road authorities to tell the lazy drivers how to use them properly.

The city where I live is replacing traffic signal intersections and 4 way stop intersections with roundabouts. Yes, there are lots of drivers down low on the learning curve bumbling through them but the time saved from sitting through light cycles is worth it not to mention the complete elimination of “floor it on yellow” red light runners. With time & experience the bumblers learn RA etiquette to some degree.

 

[ST Gui]

Preferably, I wish that they would just follow the rules

+1 The rules of engagement are... Oops. Wrong speech. Traffic laws aka rules of the road are generally made to ensure the safety of vehicle operators and nearby pedestrians and keep traffic flowing as smoothly as possible. Of course there are exceptions — nothing's perfect.

But people who unnecessarily yield their right of way to be polite at best just slow things down. Nice to be nice but we understand the rule of law and are ok with it. Well I am anyway.

I thought if you were making a left turn across from someone going straight, they had the right of way.

Always best to know your state's laws regarding right of way. STOP signs make a difference compared to traffic lights. In CA CVC 21800 addresses "first vehicle in the intersection" and when two vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time. CVC 21801 addresses a vehicle wanting to turn left when another vehicle is approaching close enough to be a hazard i.e. uncontrolled intersection or an intersection where both vehicles have a green light.

I imaging most states are pretty much the same. As always there will be a time when someone doesn't follow the rules and there's drama or worse. No doubt almost (because someone always is/has an exception) every one here had approached an uncontrolled intersection or proceeded after stopping at a sign or signal and somebody from the opposite direction makes a left turn close enough to have to brake hard or — not be able to brake in time. On occasion drivers have cut me off when they missed their —> and they don't want to wait for the next one. It's happened when on a bike or in my car.

 

[ST Gui]

Eliminating them altogether by creating roundabouts is the most efficient solution for intersections, but that requires people to learn how tp properly use them.

Easy peasy. (Keep the sound down or off.)

We have something similar but as I understand it they're not actual roundabouts that anybody outside the US would call as such. We call them traffic calming circles. People seem to get the hang of them quick enough but like anything anywhere there's always The Other Guy who'll drive by his own rules.

Talking to a CHP motor he told of trying to catch a monster H-D that was leaving his BMW in the dust. The miscreant apparently didn't know that there was a calming circle at the intersection. It had significantly raise brick work which the H-D hit at speed. The motor guy said the bad guy was airborne a bit and got crossed up but stayed up and was gone very quickly.

On one occasion someone in a van made a T–intersection out of a circle by coming into my lane from the left going S > N while I was heading E basically going the wrong way (anti-clockwise). That was a little exciting.

 

[diferg]

Just Dont Make Eye Contact!!!

 

[SMSW]

Cleveland Heights uses 4 way stops to regulate speed in residential areas. Every intersection has a 4w stop. It's stupid, because after hitting two or three of them, people tend to drift right through. Everyone knows they are not needed, and it breeds contempt for the traffic laws.

 

[Beeflips]

Eliminating them altogether by creating roundabouts is the most efficient solution for intersections, but that requires people to learn how tp properly use them.

We have them here, just not enough of them. I like roundabouts.

 

[Beeflips]

Just Dont Make Eye Contact!!!

I've actually tried that, it didn't work, they will still sit there a wait for you, and keep waving at me to go.

 

[ASPC]

I don’t trust other people with my life, so I hate four way stops.

 

[Al st1100]

what happened to the rule "might has right"

 

[STumped]

Whether they have the 'right of way' or not, they always have the 'right of weight'!

LOL! That's a new one to me. Right of weight.... love it!

I learned that, on a motorcycle, you can never have the right of way. You can only give the right of way. The moment you assume that you have the right of way is the moment that some BDC will violate it! Assume no one can see you and you won't get caught off guard.

 

[Larry Fine]

I like roundabouts.

My favorite:

 

[Gus1300]

This is what I've always heard: You arrive at a four-way stop at the same time another car arrives at the stop from a different direction, and a moment of confusion ensues for each driver as they ask themselves, “who has the right of way at a four way stop?” The correct answer is: Drivers should yield to the car on the right.

Instead of thinking who has the right of way, it may help to remember who should be the one to yield. On two wheels, I'm always willing to be that one! (Like the 'Right of weight' comment)

 

[Mr.E]

Some of our round-a-bouts (Traffic Circles) are completely crazy!

 

[Chris09]

I nearly never accept a courteous offer to proceed incorrectly from a four way stop; sometimes people mean well but then change their mind, I'll wait them out or proceed painfully slow. I understood the rationale of yielding to the right was the view advantage of the left driver compared to the that of the right where he may have to try to see you around his pillar.