ABS II Help Needed!!!

OP
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George
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004
I'm suspicious of my battery voltage. The bat under full charge and no load shows 13, but the voltage at the connector to the rear speed sensor was only 10.8. That's kind'a low.

Looking for more now. :(
 
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Could this possibly be a case of "When all else fails, replace the battery"? Hope you get it sorted out. Sorry I can't be of much help.
 
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Hopefully that low voltage with the battery voltage being ok and gradual issue with the ABS means a simple corroded connector or crimp somewhere. A loose/corroded ground somewhere also does the seemingly impossible.

Or are you saying the voltage at the battery sags that much with the key on testing the abs?

I'd try a nice IPA. Life's short start with dessert LOL.
 
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Man, I wuz thinking that George would have it fixed, documented, new photos and a link to the repair in the halls of wisdom by now !

Standing by and still searching for more clues,

Chris
 

jfheath

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I had a similar fault once, and documented it on my own website - link below.

Some bits of info that may help.

i) If you clear the fault codes, and there is a sensor fault, it is unlikely that the same fault code will appear again, because the system will never arm itself.

ii) You can tell if the sensors are working by doing the following: (I've never seen this documented. I discovered it by experimenting !

Make anote of the fault codes if you havent already.
Try to retrieve the fault code as you have done already.
Clear the fault codes. Even if you have done so already.
Do not turn the ignition on.

You may need some help. Or a mirror.
Spin the wheel as fast as you can. The ABS lights will flash as the wheel spins if the sensor is working. (You can start the engine and put it in gear to do the back wheel. The front wheel needs someone to watch while you spin). If the ABS light doesn't flash, the sensor isn't picking up the pulses, and is probably faulty, but try cleaning it. I once had a thin wire brush strand across it which caused a problem.

iii) The sensors are interchangeable. They have different coloured connectors, but that is all. The cable fasteneres are a bit awkward to release, but using the above procedure you can verify where the fault lies by switching front sensor to the rear and vice versa.

You can read my full write-up here and also a video looking at the ABS lights and retrieving a fault code with the rear sensor disconnected here.

I hope that there is something in there that helps.
 
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George
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Exactly what I needed to see, John. My original fault is just like yours, except in my case the TCS turned itself off so power was restored. Thanks for the added info.

At this point, I've pulled all the connectors, cleaned and greased, and put'em all back. I have most of the plastic back on but need to complete that to test it out. Have to assume the rear sensor is the bad boy. I'll get another.

Read in another post, the number on the side identifies the code for the sensor and they are available much cheaper than the Honda price. (So what else is new. :D) I'll keep y'all poSTed as things progress.

BTW, read on another post, the sensor returns a 0 to 4V spike when operating correctly. Mine isn't.
 

Bigmak96

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George. Where is this supply of sensors? I hunted high and low at the time, without success - and I read elsewhere that they are no longer available as spares.
:popcorn
 
OP
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George
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I haven't looked for a replacement yet. Ugh! Have almost all the plastic back on, what a job. I'm fixing some other wiring as I go. Sorry to say, getting the bike ready is not highest on Deba's list. (note, st is not capped in that last word. :D)
 

Slydynbye

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George 2 things occurred to me that you might check.
1. The clearance from the sensor to the ABS ring might be critical.
2. There could be some sort of crud on the face of the sensor. You probably checked already.

If that's not it I'm going to have to fall back to my recommendation for a Beer or Two.
Remember my advice is Free but worth what you paid.
 
OP
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George
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Checked the spacing, since the front and rear sensors are electrically the same, assume the front spacing of 004 mm and the rear of 008 means the spacing isn't that critical.

I'm getting no joy when spinning the rear wheel, haven't tried the front as (as John mentioned) ya can't see the lightw on the dash while spinning the front wheel by hand. I don't have a second person handy.

The number stamped on the side of the sensor (DTCK00351) turns up nadda on the Google search.

Looking at generic ABS speed sensors for autos returns prices from $20 to $40 but nothing looks remotely similar.

The Honda part is OEM ~$250, I've found for prices down to $175. No used ones yet.

Not absolutely sure the sensor is the problem either tho that's what the original code suggests.

UGH!! Don't wanna buy one without knowing fur sur.
 

jfheath

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Hi again

Sounds like you are going through exactly the same sequence of events that I did. Dont forget to get the flashing ABS light when you spin the wheel, you must go through that sequence of retrieving the fault codes, clearing them and leaving the ignition on. Once you have verified that the front light flashes when you spin the front wheel and that the back doesn't flash, you can verify that it is the sensor and not the wiring by putting the front sensor on the back. and re-checking. My guess is that the fault on the back wheel will disappear, and the rear sensor on the front wheel will not then produce the flashing. That symptom could still arise with a fault in the connector or in the short lead to the sensor. But so far it sounds like a faulty sensor. Ron Ayers has one listed at $165. 38510-MAJ-781 (or 780). Dont take my word for this code, please check it yourself !! David Silver also has one listed but its over ?200. But first you need to see that flashing ABS light when you spin the front wheel. Drag a neighbour in, or get a mirror rigged up. Or a video camera, and look at the replay.

There is an awkward little clip on the front sensor cable which is difficult to work out how to get it off. The clip pivots on its fixing, and I spent ages trying to undo the pivot, which wasn't the right thing to do !

Like you, I didn't want to splash out on a sensor and then find it was something else. Once I had the two disconnected and was able to compare them side by side, I was certain. You will NEVER get the code 6 fault code again. The ECU checks that both wheels are turning by the same amount before it arms itself. If it doesn't arm itself, then it cannot record the fault with the sensors. So the symptoms you have, coupled with the previous code 6 definitely point to the rear sensor or rear sensor wiring.

Do your sensors come out of their brackets easily ? I only ask because my rear one didn't. I'd had it out 6 months previously, but it was locked solid. I soaked it in penetrating fluid, and got a very narrow bladed screwdriver and tapped it gently between the bracket and the flange of the sensor, thinking that the narrow wedge shape would lift the sensor out of the hole. It didn't. I was ever so careful, but the oh so gentle taps transmitted to the bracket, and the cast alloy bracket snapped off. I had to replace the entire backplate and bearings to get the ABS working again. I'm saying this to emphasise how fragile that back sensor bracket is. I've always liberally greased the sensors since then (although the 1300 sensors have a seal and a MUCH bigger space between sensor and hole.

But I did locate a sensor at a breakers yard. They seem to be the same type from 1992 to 2002 - but again, check this out for yourself - so you stand a chance of finding one. And in my case, the breaker hadn't got a clue what he had got - he let me go through his entire ST1100 bins looking for one - in the end I found one lying on the floor. ?10.

There is a clip which holds the sensor cable on the swinging arm near the drive shaft universal joint. I had trouble with that. Its a long time ago now, and cant remember exactly, but my hands are massive, and cant get into tight spaces easily. I got the cable out OK, but I seem to remember having difficulty threading it through the gap and resorting to taking the wheel out to get it back into place. You may have more luck.
 
OP
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George
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004
You've got it all sussed out, John.

My rear sensor was only a little stuck, it came out easily enuff. My thought , instead of swapping the two sensors, was to make up a jumper, disconnect the front sensor and pin it into the rear sensor connector, then reverse. If the problem follow, it's the rear sensor; if not, it's the wiring (not likely.)

I'll set up my camera to record then play back. Should show me what's working. Thanks for that tip.

Wonder why the UK gets nearly twice as much as the US dealers??

Haven't tried to contact any breakers in the US, but past experience shows they charge ~1/2 retail, and they pretty much always know what they have. Don't wanna chance it on a used part unless I know the source fur sur.

I'll keep y'all poSTed. Sent a PM to Mark Kunath to see if he's parting his 97 or if he's gonna fix it.
 

Bigmak96

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I'll keep y'all poSTed. Sent a PM to Mark Kunath to see if he's parting his 97 or if he's gonna fix it.
It only needs a fairing stay and plastic. I have most of it on hand so it will be on the road again one day. You are welcome to either of my sensors to use and or test with George. We all can start keeping an eye open for a reasonable replacement too. That will get you fixed tho if that is in fact the glitch.
 
OP
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George
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004
Thinking the rear sensor is it, Mark. All the symptoms seem to check out with what John went thru a couple years ago.

Found a site which searches wrecking yards for ya. Got a quote from Oz Power Sports in Ottowa, KS for $295 for a USED one! Don't think so. :D
 

Slydynbye

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