Add linked brakes?

[Alberto]

I've seen some posts here about 'how to remove linked brakes.' I have non-linked brakes on my 1996 ST1100 with ABS1. After riding in a mountainous area for the past year, I've come to the idea that it would be better if I had linked brakes.

Is it possible to add an SMC line to the ABS1 version? (Don't want to replace a motorcycle for now))

 

[Uncle Phil]

Presuming the ABSI is similar to the ABSII, your best option would be to find an ABSI parts bike with the plumbing in good shape.
You would have to change out the calipers, add the SMC, and the plumbing.
I don't know the caliper mountings are the same for a standard and an ABSI, but on a ABSII they are different.
And on an ABSII the front forks are different.
A lot of work and a lot of time for sure!

 

[Alberto]

A lot of work and a lot of time for sure!

It is true if I upgrade the entire system to the ABS II version. However, I'm wondering if it is possible just to link the front and rear brake lines without changing everything..

 

[Larry Fine]

I have non-linked brakes on my 1996 ST1100 with ABS1.

I thought the '96 was the first year for ABS2.

 

[jfheath]

You wouldn't want to give control of the rear brakes to the front brake lever. As you increase the power to the front brakes, the front rubber bites harder into the tarmac and increases the effectiveness. However, it also makes the rear end of the bike light, and that would result in rear wheel lockup. You'd also loose the two completely independent hydraulic circuits for your brakes - which is a safety requirement and may well be a legal one.

1996 saw the introduction of the ABS2 system - but it came with larger diameter forks, larger front brake discs, 3 piston calipers and it came with the combined braking system - which included a secondary master cylinder to operate the rear brakes when the front is applied, and a proportional control valve to limit the braking power to the rear wheel to prevent lock up. I think it must have also had the delay valve to limit the initial braking force on the front when only the pedal is being used. Not sure about that though as the 1100s already had an anti-dive system. That antidive device is shifted to the other fork leg for the ABS/CBS models.

None ABS models were still manufactured in 1996. I had one. The braking on the ABS/CBS versions is so very much superior - I had a 2000 model.

 

[Uncle Phil]

It is true if I upgrade the entire system to the ABS II version. However, I'm wondering if it is possible just to link the front and rear brake lines without changing everything..

Nope ... the linked portion requires what I listed - the full ABS requires additional plumbing and electronics.
I converted my standard ST1100 to use the ABSII calipers but did not install the linked portion (I may one of these days).
I spent a lot of time 'studying' the whole thing before I did it.

Putting An ABSII Front End On A Standard ST1100 | ST1100-Brakes | ST-Owners.com

 

[Alberto]

I thought the '96 was the first year for ABS2.

Forgot to mention, that I have ST manufactured in 96 but it is pre '96 model

 

[Uncle Phil]

Forgot to mention, that I have ST manufactured in 96 but it is pre '96 model

The ABSI would be easier to use since you should not have to change forks unless the ABSI had different forks (but it would say you the trouble of changing the triple tree anyway).

 

[Alberto]

I hoped that it is possible just link rear line to front one using SMC of next model, not connect them directly of course. It would be enough for me to have rear brakes activated by hand lever with standard proportion, without backward link from rear to front...

 

[Capital]

I hoped that it is possible just link rear line to front one using SMC of next model, not connect them directly of course. It would be enough for me to have rear brakes activated by hand lever with standard proportion, without backward link from rear to front...

Linked brakes operate different cylinders on the calipers. E.g. front lever engages 1 cylinder on the back; back lever engages 2 more (this is simplified version). They are not using same circuits.

 

[MidLife]

Linked brakes operate different cylinders on the calipers. E.g. front lever engages 1 cylinder on the back; back lever engages 2 more (this is simplified version). They are not using same circuits.

Yes....and No.

Yes. Front and rear are two different circuits with each one its own reservoir.

But the front lever only operates the two outer front pistons (on the 1300, and I assume same for the 1100). Nothing else. There is no hydraulic action from the front lever to the rear, the SMC is what activates the two outer rears. The SMC generates the pressure to the outer rears, not the front lever, using fluid from the rear reservoir.

The rear pedal activates all the middle pistons, front and rear.

As @jfheath often notes, if you are not moving, the rear pedal activates all 3 rear pistons (because the SMC is not engaged, due to standing still).

 

[Sadlsor]

Don't mean to be Danny Downer here, and perhaps I should just keep quiet (yeah, like I really do that), but seems at first blush that you're looking at a good bit of work and some expense to modify something that works now, for questionable improvement, and all at the risk of decreasing the reliability of your existing brakes.
Seriously, if braking is of true concern, i would suggest taking an advanced riding course, or at minimum, practicing and practicing and practicing your quick stops on your bike as it is.
Not you specifically, but i know many riders spend boat- loads and butt- loads of money to "improve" their bikes, but won't spend any money, ever, to improve their own riding skills.
Just an observation.

 

[SMSW]

My 76 Moto Guzzi had linked brakes, and there were no electronics aboard that bike (no ABS). That said, if you want linked brakes, I suggest you buy another ST, it would be cheaper and easier.

 

[Larry Fine]

My 76 Moto Guzzi had linked brakes, and there were no electronics aboard that bike (no ABS). That said, if you want linked brakes, I suggest you buy another ST, it would be cheaper and easier.

Agreed. Plus, you'll then have two STs!

 

[mello dude]

Don't mean to be Danny Downer here, and perhaps I should just keep quiet (yeah, like I really do that), but seems at first blush that you're looking at a good bit of work and some expense to modify something that works now, for questionable improvement, and all at the risk of decreasing the reliability of your existing brakes.
Seriously, if braking is of true concern, i would suggest taking an advanced riding course, or at minimum, practicing and practicing and practicing your quick stops on your bike as it is.
Not you specifically, but i know many riders spend boat- loads and butt- loads of money to "improve" their bikes, but won't spend any money, ever, to improve their own riding skills.
Just an observation.

Agree with that, perhaps working on improving the current system, maybe EBC HH pads and going to stainless brake lines... and also work on your braking skills. Practice.
LBS is a matenance headache, do you want that?

 

[SMSW]

LBS is a matenance headache, do you want that?

Really depends how sophisticated you get w/ the engineering. My Guzzi was basically maintenance free - it was a pretty simple system.

 

[Al st1100]

It is true if I upgrade the entire system to the ABS II version. However, I'm wondering if it is possible just to link the front and rear brake lines without changing everything..

here ya go, not as simple as it sounds

 

[garyjpaterson]

As @jfheath often notes, if you are not moving, the rear pedal activates all 3 rear pistons (because the SMC is not engaged, due to standing still).

A bit off topic, but I've been meaning to ask; how?
Been thinking about how you can bleed the circuit with the secondary master cylinder, since you need to be moving to activate it.
As far as I can understand from reading the service manual T Addendum, which seems to go into good detail, they are completely separate circuits? So I don't understand how the rear brake pedal can activate the outer rear pistons when standing still.
Would love an explanation of how it works

 

[TerryS]

Agree with that, perhaps working on improving the current system, maybe EBC HH pads and going to stainless brake lines... and also work on your braking skills. Practice.
LBS is a matenance headache, do you want that?

This is sensible advice. I can add that fitting a slightly smaller master cylinder (14mm, off a VFR800), braided lines and EBC HH pads was a serious improvement on my 1991 ST1100. I thought the stock front brake was much too wooden feeling. Learning to use both brakes together effectively is a good life skill for a motorcyclist, and very few other models have the linked brake (unless you are a Honda fan-boy like Mello and I with VFR800s).

 

[ST Gui]

I'd ask why Honda moved to LBS in the first place. Was it a significant improvement in braking that applied to all riders? Or was it something to transparently improve the braking skill of less accomplished riders? I've seen more than one post here of riders who didn't know their STs had linked brakes.

The posts about wanting to delink the brakes to take back control aren't quite legion but there've been some and probably will always be inquiries. I haven't seen a post about how a rider trying to avoid a situation nearly ended their life because they didn't know they had LBS and didn't act accordingly.

It's a preference and if someone is adamant that it be fulfilled rock on. Personally I don't see there's enough difference in the performance of either discipline when used by an experienced rider to warrant the time and money needed to move from either one to the other. Whew.

Getting an ST with LBS would be an easier route if more expensive in the short and long run. But if you're up for it you might off one bike for the other once you had the A/B opportunity.