Advise on High-Viz Clothing, Helmet ect...

[CELarson]

I wear a High-viz jacket for all of sleepy morning commuters. It helps to be seen, but will not make the car following me stop any faster. I just purchased a Whelen t-ion stoplight to put on the back of the bike to grab the driver behind me attention. What has saved me more than once is where I stop on the road. I usually don't stop in the center of the road right behind the car I am following. I am stopping to the side of the lane so the car can pass me on the side if they overshot or following me to closely.

 

[DavidR8]

I went out for a bicycle ride today wearing my bright yellow jacket. At a pedestrian crosswalk, I waited until the walk sign came on. The car facing me didn't turn right away so I assumed they were waiting for me as they should. I started across and about halfway, the car facing me turns in front of me. I had to slow down, but not panic brake.

As she passed in front of me, I raised my hand in the sort of universal "what are you doing?" gesture (nothing obscene). I could tell by her expression that that's the moment she actually saw me and was kind of apologetic.

I wasn't mad. This sort of thing happens all of the time. You can wear the most conspicuous clothing and if you're a traffic anomaly, such as a bicycle (often) or a motorcycle (not as often, but still too often), they can look right at you and still not see.

Having said that, I still think bright clothing is a good idea. My next motorcycle jacket will be more visible. Right now I'm wearing a black Joe Rocket mesh jacket which I really like and if anyone has any ideas how to liven up the color, I'd love to hear.

Buy a high-viz vest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jazzkat]

My opinion is that Hi Viz is a bit of a red herring. I have ridden in Hi Viz, though I generally wear all black, including a black helmet (although I have just bought a nice shiny white one). I believe I have stayed alive due to defensive riding not through any miracle of bright clothing. Car drivers don't see because they don't look properly, no amount of hi viz will fix that.
A retired police motorcycle instructor once said to me " My bike is covered in hi viz, I have blue flashing lights and a loud siren and they still pull out in front of me"
It may help and if it does great, but don't wear it thinking that you'll be seen any better, because I don't believe you will.

 

[ST Gui]

It may help and if it does great, but don't wear it thinking that you'll be seen any better, because I don't believe you will.

My personal opinion is that hi-viz and maybe correlation are given too much credit. Same with helmet color. If somebody's not looking they're not going to see you. I don't know any causality stats and I'm sure it's helped someone somewhere see a road worker traffic control person and motorcyclist be seen sooner than later or than not at all. I can't say it doesn't help any more than I can say it does.

I don't know that anyone who does hi-viz think it helps or could help actually trades it for situational awareness and defensive riding.

 

[CDNolddude]

I have a grey motoport jacket and my buddy wears a hi viz tour master. There have been many many times when we stopped that other riders, drivers and cops who come to him and say that they can see him easily because of the jacket. Especially in dull/cloudy wheather. They tell me I should get one to. May get hiviz motoport

 

[the Ferret]

It may help and if it does great, but don't wear it thinking that you'll be seen any better, because I don't believe you will.

I just retired after 24 1/4 years from the Highway Traffic Safety Business. I can tell you without question, that wearing Hi Viz makes you much more visible than someone not wearing Hi Viz. That is why it is now mandatory for all highway workers and any police directing traffic. Won't necessarily stop someone from running you over, as some people just won't be paying enough attention to prevent it. Heck my brother is a retired fireman and said people pulled out in front of his 60' long fire truck with sirens blasting and lights flashing, but most everyone got the heck out of the way. You just have to be prepared for the brain dead individual that ignores all the warnings and be defensive enough to make up for that one individual.

 

[Bush]

I just retired after 24 1/4 years from the Highway Traffic Safety Business. I can tell you without question, that wearing Hi Viz makes you much more visible than someone not wearing Hi Viz. That is why it is now mandatory for all highway workers and any police directing traffic. Won't necessarily stop someone from running you over, as some people just won't be paying enough attention to prevent it. Heck my brother is a retired fireman and said people pulled out in front of his 60' long fire truck with sirens blasting and lights flashing, but most everyone got the heck out of the way. You just have to be prepared for the brain dead individual that ignores all the warnings and be defensive enough to make up for that one individual.

Seems to sum up this debate nicely, IMHO.

 

[dduelin]

Feel free to draw your own conclusions:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387473/

Wearing contrasting and high viz clothing is another tool for the defensive rider. It is not a guarantee we will be seen of course but studies do show it helps.

 

[LibertyDeath76]

I've seen people not paying attention at an intersection suddenly aware of my presence because of my high vis (see avatar). I personally think the red bike helps also. I've also almost been run over because the driver never looked in my direction. Nothing but attention and skill can help you there. I always try to look at the driver inside the car if at all possible.

 

[ibike2havefun]

If nothing else, hi-viz gear takes away any possible claim the distracted/negligent driver might make about me having been hard to see when they ran me over. No help or consolation for me, but extra leverage for my widow's attorney in the wrongful death litigation.

 

[ReSTored]

.........I can tell you without question, that wearing Hi Viz makes you much more visible than someone not wearing Hi Viz............

I don't think there is any "magic bullet" here. Hi Viz gear, a headlight modulator, LED lights etc....... makes you more visible to more drivers most of the time, but there is absolutely no guarantee that some ignorant or incompetent or distracted driver is not going to run you over anyway. I think we're just looking to minimize the ongoing risks to the greatest extent possible.

 

[jfheath]

I've always worn a Hi-Viz jacket - but how much of it is actually visible from the front is debateable. I have the Bikequip reflectors on the fairing sides, some on the panniers and a high level tail stop LED light on the Honda top box. I believe that they all help me to be seen, but I don't know that for sure.

I am completely undecided about the benefit of bright driving lights, but so far have chosen not to fit them. I have ridden with other riders who have really bright lights and what I see prevents me from fitting them myself. They seem to hide the bike behind an intensely white glare, which makes it difficult to see what is causing it, and more importantly, makes it impossible to determine the speed or even whether the source is moving or stationary.

The two most useful things for being noticed I have found to be:-
* moving my road position so that I cross the driver's line of sight, or weaving a little;
* and looking into their eyes - its surprising how effective this is when riding a pushbike, and I'm more surprised that it works when riding a motorcycle as well - but I ride with my visor up much of the time, so its easy for them to see that I am looking at them.

Another useful tool is being aware of driver behaviour and that the space that I occupy on the road, can, under certain circumstances, be seen as a space rather than as a motorcycle. My job is to do everything that I can to make sure that I am not occupying the 'space' that the driver decides to move into - and to be able to spot the circumstances when this can happen.

Sometimes as motorcyclists, no matter what we wear, no matter what lights we have on, we can be quite skilled in making ourselves invisible. And that can be less to do with 'brain dead drivers' and have more to do with motorcyclists being unaware of their own 'transparency' to other road users.

And before you all shoot me down in flames - consider this. We don't see what our eyes see. We only see what our brain tells us that our eyes can see. If for whatever reason, our brain decides that something in our field of vision is not important, then we don't see it.

 

[ddemair]

Sometimes as motorcyclists, no matter what we wear, no matter what lights we have on, we can be quite skilled in making ourselves invisible. And that can be less to do with 'brain dead drivers' and have more to do with motorcyclists being unaware of their own 'transparency' to other road users.

I've spent (actually, more like wasted) a lot of time watching Youtube videos of motorcycle accidents in the hopes of learning something about how to avoid having an accident myself.
A very large percentage of the accidents are caused by exactly what you're referring to. The collision was not entirely the rider's fault, but if they hadn't been riding assuming that the motorists around them were aware of their presence, the collision wouldn't have happened.

The other riders with the bright lights may have lights that are too bright. On my bike I have a pair of 7 watt LED 25° beam angle. They don't help much for to see better at night, but they're enough to catch motorists attention without washing out the bike itself. And since there's 2 of them, I think that helps with determining distance and movement.

 

[jazzkat]

I don't doubt that Hi Viz does do what it is supposed to but as I said in my previous comment, If the driver doesn't, look they won't see.
I think what worries me most about the hi viz debate is the choice and victim blaming aspect of it and some people have touched on it already.
If I get knocked off my motorbike because some one doesn't look properly, is it my fault for not being covered from head to toe in bright yellow?

While I don't want to sound flippant, because it is a serious issue, I can't help but feel that I should be able to ride in whatever I want to and not be blamed for someone else's lack of attention. I know that stance won't help me as I hit the car that pulls out in front of me but if we start to have that attitude between ourselves then when compulsion comes in no one can complain. I'm old enough to remember the threat/issue of compulsory leg protectors in the uk.

Without wanting to go off topic, the same thing worries me about day time running lights. At one time only bicycles and motorcycles were lit up during the day, now every car here has bright DRL's blaring away and the real vulnerable, cyclists in particular, are now longer as visible and those in their metal boxes drive around with a smug sense of increased invulnerability.

 

[ST Gui]

I can't help but feel that I should be able to ride in whatever I want to and not be blamed for someone else's lack of attention.

+1 There will always that guy who'll tell you most authoritatively 'Wow you coulda/shoulda had hi-viz! You shoulda done this or that... I never ride without...' Objectivity is the first casualty of opinion. (I think Jefferson said that. Not sure).

..those in their metal boxes drive around with a smug sense of increased invulnerability.

On balance let's not deny that you can say the same thing about cyclists (with and without motors).

And I don't know any car/truck driver who uses DRL and thinks they're a big deal. And isn't there one country where they've been mandatory for a few years?

I like the idea of them on cars. My is a 2002 and doesn't have any. When driving with the sun behind me cars are often lost. I turn my headlights one so somebody in front of me knows where I am. Mandatory DRLs (which are around 35W) would eliminate that.

Yes motorcycle headlights can be lost in a sea of headlights as well as DRLs but more so in headlights than DRLs. The wiggle/waggle move of the big can help. So you do whatever you can to give you an edge real or assumed.

 

[dduelin]

Use auxiliary lighting to create a light pattern that looks different, one that stands out in a sea of cars. I saw a Valkerie once with a set of bright halogen driving lights mounted fairly high up on the outside of his crash bars. The brightness of the lights along with the width and height of them made him look like a car 1/4 mile away instead of a bike 300 feet away and I told him so. I noticed this when he came up behind me. I thought he was a car much further away until he was right behind me. When we rolled up to a traffic light I mentioned this and the concept was clearly lost on him.

 

[ST Gui]

Use auxiliary lighting to create a light pattern that looks different, one that stands out in a sea of cars.

I think this is probably the single biggest most effective thing to be done for conspicuity.

I've seen BMW adventure bike with auxiliary lights mounted mid-fork. My buddy has them too. From a distance they blend in with the headlights. But the factory 'fog' lights on his 'Wing really stand out being mounted down low. We saw two BMWs with LEDs mounted similarly but we didn't get a chance to see to what exactly.

My search for yellow (not amber) lights has been fruitless but I think that also helps separate you from the crowd. Red and blue would also work but there are downsides.

 

[the Ferret]

Jazzcat... everyone is free to wear what they want.. I do and assume you do as well. You don't have to dress like a neon banana. If you come to Ohio as long as you are wearing shorts and flip flops and glasses, that's ALL you need to wear to be legal. I don't think anybody blames a rider when someone turns left in front of him because the rider wasn't at fault. There are things we can do which are scientifically proven to mitigate injury somewhat.. a full face helmet, jacket and pants with armor. motorcycle specific boots, gloves with palm and knuckle protection. You don't have to wear ANY of that. But you are better off if you do. Agree? If you are not wearing any of it and someone pulls out in front of you, that is still ON THEM, but you can minimize the damage to yourself by wearing some protective gear, and that's all Hi-Viz is. The same protective gear you would probably normally wear anyway, but in a scientifically proven more easily visible color, which unlike most protective gear, may actually PREVENT the accident from happening in the first place. no guarantees of course.

 

[ReSTored]

+1 There will always that guy who'll tell you most authoritatively 'Wow you coulda/shoulda had hi-viz! You shoulda done this or that... I never ride without...' Objectivity is the first casualty of opinion. (I think Jefferson said that. Not sure).

..............I like the idea of them (DRL) on cars. ....

Personally, I think the whole "who's to blame" thing is a non issue for most people.

DRL's have been on Canadian vehicles for decades and over the years there have been a few reports that the accident rates have been reduced marginally. Big problem with DRL is that clueless people think all their lights are on 100% or don't realize that some DRL vehicles do not include tailights. So at night you've got people running around with taillights off and/or muted headlights on. Maybe not a huge problem on well lit city streets, but different story on a rainy night in the countryside if you find a slow moving car with no tailights and very dim headlights suddenly appear in front of you in your lane.

 

[ST Gui]

people think all their lights are on 100% or don't realize that some DRL vehicles do not include tailights.

Are the vehicle instrument lights on with the DRLs? Here the instrument lights are on with the parking/position lights. A lot of the kidz drive with the parking lights on and forget at dusk to turn the headlights on. At least the tail lights are also on.

I've always thought it was a mistake not to have the instrument lights come on with only the headlights.