An airbag vest that only works if your subscription is paid up...

[wjbertrand]

Heck, there's a mini dishwasher that eventually won't wash, unless you buy the manufacturer's detergent cartridges. A hacker fixed that : )

Hardware Hacker Breaks the DRM on a Mini Dishwasher

In what amounts to a very clever bit of hardware hacking, developer dekuNukem has detailed a methodology for refilling the DRM-protected detergent cassettes for a $486 portable dishwasher called Bob. Trust me, it’s more interesting than it sounds.

gizmodo.com

I did a similar hack to our new GE refrigerator. The water filters have an RFID tag on them that expires 3 months from installation. Once expired the water dispenser and ice maker are shut down until you buy and install a new official GE filter for $60+. Luckily GE sells a dummy filter cartridge intended for use if the fridge is fed pre-filtered water externally. It has an RFID tag that does not expire but it occupies the space where the internal filter goes. I just peeled the RFID tag off of the dummy and taped it to the correct location for the fridge to read it inside the filter compartment. Now I can use generic water filters without RFID tags at about 25% the price.

 

[Daboo]

My Hit-Air MLV-P in hi-vis yellow costs $519...and works all the time. I like the KISS principle.

Some of these hi-tech airbags wow you with the tech, but the lifetime costs are staggering. If some of them deploy, you can't just change the CO2 cartridge and be on your way. You need to send it back to the factory where they reset the electronics...and a cost of hundreds of dollars. In the meantime, you're unprotected. And...your wallet is lighter in the process.

Chris

 

[jfheath]

Didn't we have this sort of thing in the 1920s? A protection racket, I think they called it. How apt.

 

[bdalameda]

Dumbest idea ever. According the article, if I read it correctly, determination whether to deploy the bag not only depends on the subscription but an active connection via your phone to the internet where the active crash data is sent and a calculation occurs, then a signal back to deploy or not based on the data. So that seems to mean it would not deploy in any area without a cell connection and even with a connection the back and forth handling of the data would seem to add time to the decision to deploy. I can see Klim opening themselves to a bunch of lawsuits from injuries sustained that might have been avoidable because the bags did not deployed or did not deploy in time. What if their site is down?

You can buy the product outright without the on-going subscription but that is double the price, but does it still depend on an internet connection to deploy or not?

This is completely wrong. It does not require any internet connection except to update it and activate it when you first purchase it. You do not even have to have your cell phone with you to use it. The only time it uses your cell phone is to send operational data back to In&Motion if it gets deployed to use to improve the algorithms for future updates. It will fully deploy in 45 to 60 milliseconds.

 

[bdalameda]

My Hit-Air MLV-P in hi-vis yellow costs $519...and works all the time. I like the KISS principle.

Some of these hi-tech airbags wow you with the tech, but the lifetime costs are staggering. If some of them deploy, you can't just change the CO2 cartridge and be on your way. You need to send it back to the factory where they reset the electronics...and a cost of hundreds of dollars. In the meantime, you're unprotected. And...your wallet is lighter in the process.

Chris

Unlike other autonomous airbags the Klim with the In&Motion box can be repacked yourself if it gets deployed. They even give you a small inflator device so you can manually inspect the airbag yourself for damage. It uses an argon cannister similar to a Co2 cartridge though larger and will inflate the airbag much faster than a Co2 cartridge can and you can order these and replace them yourself. They only recommend sending the airbag in for inspection after it has been deployed 3 times and the cost for inspection is minimal.

Again - the autonomous airbags will protect you better than the tethered systems as it will detect a fall faster, deploy faster and deploy in some cases where the tethered system will not work as in situations where you are not thrown far enough away from the bike to have the tether pulled enough to deploy the tethered system. Without the tether you are also less restricted on the bike for standing etc. and as long as you have the autonomous unit on it will protect you and you cannot forget to clip the tether to the bike.

 

[bdalameda]

Here is info that may clarify some questions regarding the Klim Airbag vest - this is directly from Klim:

FAQ about the In&motion system and services:


1. Do I have to subscribe to an In&motion detection mode for this vest to work?
Answer: No. You can either buy the service outright, or choose from a monthly or annual subscription model. The goal with offering a subscription model is to lower the initial financial barrier to using an airbag vest. After 3-4 years (depending on which modes you choose) the subscription cost matches the outright purchase cost. Choose what works best for you.

2. If I don’t want a monthly or annual subscription, can I still get this airbag vest?
Answer: You can purchase the vest and algorithm service outright and not have to worry about subscriptions.

3. If I suspend/pause my subscription and forget to reactivate it, will the vest still detect a crash and inflate?
Answer: No, because in the first place you won’t be able to turn it on into ride-ready status before your ride. It will not “trick” you into thinking it’s active when it is not, because the LED indicators will warn you that it’s not active. If you ignore the LED indicators warning you that the airbag isn’t active, you can’t expect it to work when you’re not actively subscribed.

4. If I’m subscribed monthly and miss a payment or my credit card expires, will the airbag suddenly stop working?
Answer: No. In&motion will reach out with a 30-day warning prior to your payment method expiration. After expiration or missed/forgotten payment, In&motion gives you a 30-day grace period during which the airbag functions completely the same. You will receive notifications about the missed payment. After the 30-day grace period, the airbag will stop detecting crashes until payment is resumed. You will not be able to turn on your airbag vest into ride-ready status after the 30-day grace period, so you won’t unknowingly ride with a non-functioning vest, unless you choose to ignore the LED indicators warning that it isn’t active.

5. Would In&motion turn off my vest mid-ride if I pass the 30-day grace period?
Answer: No. In&motion will not turn off your vest mid-ride for any reason, even if you’re at the end of the 30-day grace period and it elapses during your ride. The only way for it to turn off during a ride is if you didn’t charge the In&box and the battery dies (LEDs indicate battery level, which you see when you turn it on) or if you manually turn it off during your ride.

 

[bdalameda]

Here is a video with a slow motion clip of the Klim In&Motion airbag crash test. As you can see the airbag is fully deployed even befor the dummy rider is fully off the seat of the bike.

 

[st11ray]

Here is a video with a slow motion clip of the Klim In&Motion airbag crash test. As you can see the airbag is fully deployed even befor the dummy rider is fully off the seat of the bike.

Would the Klim airbag deploy in a simple tipover from a stopped position?

 

[SMSW]

Yeah, nah. Klim can stuff it, that ain't for me. Absurd that the functioning of a piece of safety gear is based on bilking me monthly for the privilege of owning their product. Now I can hear the arguments that there are plenty of other monthly services we pay for for them to work. And that is the crux of it. There is NO WAY, NONE, that this item requires an internet connection to function correctly. At the time of an accident event, there is no way an internet connection will play ANY part of the deployment. It simply isn't fast enough, or responsive enough, to do anything in the milliseconds of the required response. This in not true in a music streaming service, or a software service, or utility service. Klim marketing dept should be fired, as hearing this, it certainly doesn't make me think that the company has the best interests of riders in mind.

RT

Tell me now, how many companies put customers ahead of profits?

 

[SMSW]

Here is a video with a slow motion clip of the Klim In&Motion airbag crash test. As you can see the airbag is fully deployed even befor the dummy rider is fully off the seat of the bike.

Aye, but 12 milliseconds later, his air bag was notified by Klim that his subscription had expired and it self deflated mid air.

 

[ColinW1981]

Am I missing something here. Given that the 'black' box has to be active when you're riding, how long will it be (and in some countries is happening) before the responding law enforcement can get a download of your riding specifics at the time of the activation??? Think it can't happen? Hmmm...Tiger went from 'driver' was not at fault to 'driver IS at fault' with his Tesla. I get that the tracking tech is hardwired into auto's and the like, but Klim has figured away to make the rider liable no matter what tech level exists on all era's of bikes. And don't think the insurance companies are looking at this closely...

 

[SMSW]

Without the tether you are also less restricted on the bike for standing etc.

I'm not clear on what other activities a tethered airbag vest restricts? If you want to do handstands, lengthen the tether, separate from the bike mid air like the extreme bicycle riders do - lengthen the tether, extra curricular activities with a partner? All that takes is imagination.

 

[st11ray]

Am I missing something here. Given that the 'black' box has to be active when you're riding, how long will it be (and in some countries is happening) before the responding law enforcement can get a download of your riding specifics at the time of the activation??? Think it can't happen? Hmmm...Tiger went from 'driver' was not at fault to 'driver IS at fault' with his Tesla. I get that the tracking tech is hardwired into auto's and the like, but Klim has figured away to make the rider liable no matter what tech level exists on all era's of bikes. And don't think the insurance companies are looking at this closely...

Are you riding now with a smartphone? GPS? LE and insurance companies can do the same with those devices.

 

[bdalameda]

Would the Klim airbag deploy in a simple tipover from a stopped position?

No it would not. The sensors and algorithms can determine what kind of fall and activate it when needed. There is a video I saw that had someone try and set it off by jumping off the bike and doing other things like jumping on a trampoline and it did not deploy.

 

[bdalameda]

I'm not clear on what other activities a tethered airbag vest restricts? If you want to do handstands, lengthen the tether, separate from the bike mid air like the extreme bicycle riders do - lengthen the tether, extra curricular activities with a partner? All that takes is imagination.

I found the tether uncomfortable especially when riding offroad and standing a lot ad getting on and off the bike. I also would try and get off the bike and forget it was attached and find myself tangled up. If you loosen the tether enough to not restrict movement it sort of defeats the system by allowing too much movement before the tether can deploy the airbag. I always felt the tether pulling on me and did not like it at all and would try and get it positioned so it was not distracting. It seemed I was always fiddling with it. Maybe it's just me but I did not like it.

 

[ReSTored]

............. They only recommend sending the airbag in for inspection after it has been deployed 3 times and the cost for inspection is minimal..............

I think if you get to the point where you've had it deploy 3 times you might want to find another, safer, hobby.

 

[PFD023]

Klim isn't the only one using this exact same business model though...Ixon, Furygan, RS, Held. They all use the In&motion airbag detection device. You see it off road, on road and equestrian and on ski hills. The purchase/lease options work for some and don't work for others. Whatever gets more people in these things I'm all for....just buyer beware. I'll stick to my tethered system for now until the Astar tech vests come down in price....or the others increase the areas they protect during inflation.

With this system you buy the vest....and lease or buy the In&motion detection device.....but others have already clarified that.

 

[wjbertrand]

This is completely wrong. It does not require any internet connection except to update it and activate it when you first purchase it. You do not even have to have your cell phone with you to use it. The only time it uses your cell phone is to send operational data back to In&Motion if it gets deployed to use to improve the algorithms for future updates. It will fully deploy in 45 to 60 milliseconds.

Ok that makes a lot more sense. Seems like whomever wrote the article I read had it wrong then.

 

[rwthomas1]

Tell me now, how many companies put customers ahead of profits?

That has always been a strange way to frame things. I have no issue with a company making money. That's the point, is it not? I had my own company, and i can tell you that if i didn't make money, or enjoy benefits of having my own company, I certainly would not have bothered. Profits and customers have to coexist. Price things too low, or not operate profitably, the genius of the product wont matter, the company will cease to exist. Similarly, price to high or abuse your customers, and you will not last either. You have to take care of the customers, make them understand what they are paying for, the value you are providing for the profits you are making.

My view on the Klim vest is they are being slightly disingenuous about the "subscription". Its a lease, period, call it what it is. Miss a payment on you leased car? They send the repo man. Miss a payment on you " subscription " they turn the vest off. Same thing. Maybe the Klim customer doesn't care, or fully understand, but if they are happy I guess Klim is okay. I'd certainly view it with a dubious eye.

RT

 

[drrod]

In regards to technology in vehicles, this is a bit long, but interesting read.

How much car tech is too much, and how much is it really worth to you? - Autoblog

There's this basic skill, taught in driver's-ed: Don't drive just down the middle of your lane. Passing pedestrians or a bicycle? Hug the center stripe. Lot

www.autoblog.com

As an example of how things are now and will be in the future, my KTM comes with the cruise control and shift assist software preinstalled but requires paying for activation by the dealer.